Beethoven's String Quartets

[Brian]

Brian,  So you are moving into LvB SQ big-time?  I only have the set by alban berg quartet.  The sound and performance are both decent IMO ...

That's the one that I ordered from MDT but they couldn't locate a copy. Sound samples indicated to me that I'd like the sound of the Endellions better anyway (not acoustics but players), though again with the caveat that I have no clue about interpretive merits having not heard the music.

The relative (near-total) absence of reviews of the Endellions is a little odd...

[Opus106]

Isn't Andy a fan of the Endellion? Or am I just imagining things again?

[George]

Isn't Andy a fan of the Endellion? Or am I just imagining things again?

I believe Andy D has spoken highly of their Beethoven. You may wish to PM him.

0:)

[Opus106]

0:)

Now, I seriously hope that you aren't imagining the exact thing, too.

[George]

Now, I seriously hope that you aren't imagining the exact thing, too.

[Brian]

0:)

Andy's rumored admiration of the set, the sound samples of Quartet No 1 (my internet connection was being a jerk and loaded really slowly), and an Amazon rave were what impelled me to get the box. The Endellion cycle is, after all, just $30 at Presto Classical right now. Not bad for 10 CDs!

[George]

Andy's rumored admiration of the set, the sound samples of Quartet No 1 (my internet connection was being a jerk and loaded really slowly), and an Amazon rave were what impelled me to get the box.

Somewhere out there, our beloved and bespectacled rocker is rockin' a little bit harder.

[Herman]

Here's a very enthusiastic piece about the new (and 2nd) recording of the complete LvB SQ cycle by the Alexander String Quartet.

http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/35460/10237/

[sTisTi]

It doesn't seem to be a popular opinion, but I think the set by the Vermeer Quartet on Teldec is tops.

I have that as well. Especially the late quartets are very well done IMO. Also the sound quality is very good. IIRC I paid a ridiculously cheap price for it about 3 years ago (~25 Euros for 9 CDs), but it seems to have become a lot more expensive recently...

[Herman]

I have the Suske Qt's Mozart box. These were recommended by a couple RCMR stalwarts as beyond superior. I like their playing but I would not rate their Mozart among the very best. It's a little pedestrian. Very good workmanship, but no sublime vision. Maybe they do have this in Beethoven. At some point I might by a single LvB cd at HMV Japan  -  no way I'm going to get yet another complete set.

I can well imagine, that Mozart is a tad too "light" for these musicians, which grew up in the Leipzig tradition. This is not to detract from Mozart, just to state that the styles of Mozart and Beethoven are different.

In the meantime I got a copy of the Suske's LvB late quartets and I have to confess it didn't make me change my mind about the Suske Quartett. It's a very good band, but they just don't seem to have that little extra required for sublime music making. They don't have it in Mozart, and they don't have it in these late Beethoven quartets either, as far as I'm concerned.

There are little ensemble slips (which other quartets make too, but perhaps they get the extra studio time to make a new take, who knows?), but what I miss most is some form of musical drama, really getting into the music and make the fiddle an instrument of the soul. They are performing the music, on a very high level, but in my mind they never cross the line into a transcendent realm where you forget it's four guys with bows and strings.

I'm also a little puzzled by some balance decisions. For instance, in the 131 I think the first violin is sometimes a little too much the lead voice, whereas this is a piece where there's very much four equal voices. And in the 135 slow mvt the 1st violin almost disappears in the group, whereas I feel this is as close to Stehgeiger style (one prominent soulful voice, followed by the rest) as it gets in late Beethoven.

I'm really puzzled why some of you have been so excited about this Beethoven. It's good, earnest quartet playing, certainly. But just not the very best, most imaginative playing. I would call this the best entry level Beethoven, after which you can get acquainted with more ideosyncratic interpretations  -  the Juilliard, ABQ, Italiano, Budapest, Busch, Vegh.

[snyprrr]

In the meantime I got a copy of the Suske's LvB late quartets and I have to confess it didn't make me change my mind about the Suske Quartett. It's a very good band, but they just don't seem to have that little extra required for sublime music making. They don't have it in Mozart, and they don't have it in these late Beethoven quartets either, as far as I'm concerned.

There are little ensemble slips (which other quartets make too, but perhaps they get the extra studio time to make a new take, who knows?), but what I miss most is some form of musical drama, really getting into the music and make the fiddle an instrument of the soul. They are performing the music, on a very high level, but in my mind they never cross the line into a transcendent realm where you forget it's four guys with bows and strings.

I'm also a little puzzled by some balance decisions. For instance, in the 131 I think the first violin is sometimes a little too much the lead voice, whereas this is a piece where there's very much four equal voices. And in the 135 slow mvt the 1st violin almost disappears in the group, whereas I feel this is as close to Stehgeiger style (one prominent soulful voice, followed by the rest) as it gets in late Beethoven.

I'm really puzzled why some of you have been so excited about this Beethoven. It's good, earnest quartet playing, certainly. But just not the very best, most imaginative playing. I would call this the best entry level Beethoven, after which you can get acquainted with more ideosyncratic interpretations  -  the Juilliard, ABQ, Italiano, Budapest, Busch, Vegh.

You always make me smile!

[George]

I'm really puzzled why some of you have been so excited about this Beethoven. It's good, earnest quartet playing, certainly. But just not the very best, most imaginative playing. I would call this the best entry level Beethoven, after which you can get acquainted with more ideosyncratic interpretations  -  the Juilliard, ABQ, Italiano, Budapest, Busch, Vegh.

After reading your post and agreeing on how I like my Quartets played I was pleased to see that the groups you list are all in my collection, with the exception of the ABQ.

[snyprrr]

I just heard the last two mvmts. of the Guarnieri's Op.135 on the radio. At first I couldn't believe this beautiful slow mvmt. I was hearing (I just couldn't place it, I thought it was the a minor, or c# minor. The Guarnieri were definitely getting some spooky tones in the slow mvmt., very awesome. Their finale, too, had all the prerequisites.

Can I get a witness?

I seem to recall the Guarnieri as the first set I heard waaaaaay way back. I remember liking the Melos (DG) better, but I don't remember anything particularly wrong with the Guarnieri. Sounded great yesterday, though!

[SonicMan46]

Here's a very enthusiastic piece about the new (and 2nd) recording of the complete LvB SQ cycle by the Alexander String Quartet.

http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/35460/10237/

Yes - I read that review by Jerry Dubins - he seemed quite impressed w/ this new recording by the Alexander SQ - now selling for just $65 on Amazon (for 9 discs); don't own a lot of 'duplication' myself in this music, so will be quite interested in more comments on this recent recorded performance! 

[cosmicj]

Let me revive this very interesting thread.  I have been going through the Op 18 quartets recently in a more comprehensive way than in the past.  Marvelous music.  When I was younger, I approached them as a predecessor of the romantic composers and of Beethoven's later work.  Though I found them attractive, the set was a precursor to the "real achievement."  This time around, I am approaching them from the direction of the 1780s and early 1790s, which casts a different light on the music.  They are the next step after the Haydn Op. 76/77 set (I see Beethoven as evolving smoothly but in an idiosyncratic way from his teacher), with more technical demands from the performers, a willingness to depart from older structures and more emphasis on keys outside of the I-IV-V.  (I know - not original - but true.)  It's amazing music.  Original, expressive, accomplished. 

So, based on my previous experience, I got the Quartetto Italiano and ABQ sets.  I also slipped in a Gewandhaus Qt recording of Op. 18 1 & 2 for the hell of it.  All three are absolutely excellent.  What has surprised me is that the Gewandhaus is just as technically accomplished as the rest (maybe a bit better than the Italiano),  they are the best sonically and they just move me more than the others.  I'm going to be getting many more of their Beethoven discs in the future and am truly looking forward to it. 

Capsule remarks:

Italiano - Still the best dynamic range of the qt ensembles I know of.  Expressive.  Very good at bringing out the overall structure of the work, often just exciting musicmaking.  Negatives are: Occasional intonation issues, sonics.  (I have selections from the old re-mastering so sonics are clearly inferior to the two other recordings.  Has anyone heard the new remasterings of these recordings, for any of the QI Beethoven cycle?)

Alban Berg (the live recording of Op. 18) - Slim lead over the Gewandhaus in technique.  While they are often considered a "cold" ensemble, I find selected movements to be very impassioned (two examples: superb, expressive renditions of Op. 18 #1: ii, Op. 18 #6: iv).  Sonics are very good but a little thin.  (live recording but no crowd sounds, fortunately). 

Gewandhaus: just Op. 18 1 & 2 right now.  Very expressive.  Others on this thread have described them as "risky."  I wouldn't put it that way - I'd say they aren't as tightly controlled as ABQ or QI.  Technically near perfect.  The sonics are the best of the three - very detailled, full, on the reverb side of neutral.  But these recordings just affect me more than the others.

Boy, there are a lot of excellent performances of Op. 18.  All three of these discs I have commented on are terrific. 

Interested in hearing more commentary. 

[Scarpia]

I just heard the last two mvmts. of the Guarnieri's Op.135 on the radio. At first I couldn't believe this beautiful slow mvmt. I was hearing (I just couldn't place it, I thought it was the a minor, or c# minor. The Guarnieri were definitely getting some spooky tones in the slow mvmt., very awesome. Their finale, too, had all the prerequisites.

Can I get a witness?

I seem to recall the Guarnieri as the first set I heard waaaaaay way back. I remember liking the Melos (DG) better, but I don't remember anything particularly wrong with the Guarnieri. Sounded great yesterday, though!

Which Guarneri recording?  They recorded them twice, for RCA and for Philips.

[cosmicj]

Just to shift over to the late quartets for one second, I'd like to single out for praise the ABQ version of the C#min Op. 131 quartet.  Passionate, at times improvisatorial, just a great recording.  The reissue on EMI budget is paired with a less outstanding but still good a minor qt Op. 132.  You can have this disc for $5 or $6 delivered to your door at many places.  At that price, order it now.  You have to hear the Op. 131 version.

[Scarpia]

Just to shift over to the late quartets for one second, I'd like to single out for praise the ABQ version of the C#min Op. 131 quartet.  Passionate, at times improvisatorial, just a great recording.  The reissue on EMI budget is paired with a less outstanding but still good a minor qt Op. 132.  You can have this disc for $5 or $6 delivered to your door at many places.  At that price, order it now.  You have to hear the Op. 131 version.

That is a matter of taste.  I think I currently own at least 10 recordings of the that quartet, and the ABQ is number 11 (I sold it).  I can't think of a version I like less, except perhaps the Amadeus (also had at one time and sold) which would make it number 12 of 10, I guess.

[cosmicj]

That is a matter of taste.  I think I currently own at least 10 recordings of the that quartet, and the ABQ is number 11 (I sold it).  I can't think of a version I like less, except perhaps the Amadeus (also had at one time and sold) which would make it number 12 of 10, I guess.

If you had to name one as your favorite, what would it be?

[Scarpia]

If you had to name one as your favorite, what would it be?

My overall favorite for Beethoven Quartets is the Vermeer Quartet on Teldec (now Warner).   I also like the Italiano and the Guarneri (Philips).  The piece also works well for string orchestra and Bernstein's recording with the VPO is very interesting.   I've recently amassed a bunch of Beethoven SQ cycles that I haven't had a chance to listen to yet, so the Borodin, Endelian and Cleveland quartet versions are on my "to listen to" stack.