Beethoven's String Quartets

Started by marvinbrown, July 14, 2007, 02:29:06 PM

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Gurn Blanston

Wow, lots of replies, and all very interesting.

I started my quartet listening with Haydn Op 76, then moved to the Mozart 'Haydn' Quartets. When I got into Beethoven, it was with the Toyko's, and as Sarge hinted, their Op 18 is very good indeed. But musically, I didn't find Beethoven as far advanced as I had expected. Then I got Op 59, and I found just what I was looking for; this was the heroic Beethoven, the complex Beethoven, the Beethoven I wanted to hear. Still do. I prefer the Op 59's above all others. Which makes me especially sad, being unable to find but one of them (#3, by the Turners, on period instruments with period players. Ah well.... :)

8)
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Mandryka

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 21, 2010, 09:52:42 AM
Wow, lots of replies, and all very interesting.

I started my quartet listening with Haydn Op 76, then moved to the Mozart 'Haydn' Quartets. When I got into Beethoven, it was with the Toyko's, and as Sarge hinted, their Op 18 is very good indeed. But musically, I didn't find Beethoven as far advanced as I had expected. Then I got Op 59, and I found just what I was looking for; this was the heroic Beethoven, the complex Beethoven, the Beethoven I wanted to hear. Still do. I prefer the Op 59's above all others. Which makes me especially sad, being unable to find but one of them (#3, by the Turners, on period instruments with period players. Ah well.... :)

8)

So have you heard their Op 18? -- The CD I was asking about last night.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Brian on December 21, 2010, 09:20:12 AM
3. Hey Sarge, their slow movement of Op 59 No 1 is 14:54 - three minutes slower than my Endellion or mono Budapest SQ ;)

Yeah, way slower than any of my CD Op.59 number ones: Smetana, Gewandhaus, Lindsays, Berg (can't find the Guarneri box but it's probably faster too).

But you know, in classial-era musc I often prefer my slow movements on the quick side...just to be contrary ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Brian

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on December 21, 2010, 10:06:55 AM
Yeah, way slower than any of my CD Op.59 number ones: Smetana, Gewandhaus, Lindsays, Berg (can't find the Guarneri box but it's probably faster too).

But you know, in classial-era musc I often prefer my slow movements on the quick side...just to be contrary ;D

Sarge

Oh gosh! Well, here's a 30 second clip (at least I hope that works...)

DavidRoss

Quote from: Brian on December 21, 2010, 10:14:15 AM
Oh gosh! Well, here's a 30 second clip (at least I hope that works...)
works--60 seconds  doesn't turn me off
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

david-jw

Quote from: Scarpia on December 21, 2010, 09:02:13 AM
Heard my favorite set, the Vermeer Quartet?

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//2564613992.htm

They've reached super-bargain status.  I hate to think what I paid for them back in the day.  Probably paid more for a single disc than I would have to pay for the cycle.

I came accross the Vermeer as part of a review of 16 different late LVB quartet cycles I'm doing, and I agree that these are very fine performances indeed.

In fact they stopped me in my tracks.

Very revelatory performances, slightly slower tempi than most.

They made me listen to this music with new ears- every line and phrase appears carefully thought and felt out. It felt like a living thing. I felt the music breathing.

Also very grave and serious.

Good stuff!



karlhenning

Quote from: DavidRoss on December 21, 2010, 09:29:38 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on December 21, 2010, 09:02:13 AM
Heard my favorite set, the Vermeer Quartet?

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//2564613992.htm

They've reached super-bargain status.  I hate to think what I paid for them back in the day.  Probably paid more for a single disc than I would have to pay for the cycle.

I've never heard them but recall them being highly regarded by some and having bid on their cycle in the past back when Ebay was a good source for CDs.

Just placed my order with MDT ~$25 with shipping to the States.

Thank you both (and you, too, Brian!) . . . that really was too good to pass up.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Mandryka on December 21, 2010, 09:58:31 AM
So have you heard their Op 18? -- The CD I was asking about last night.

No. I saw your post and would have replied, but my experience with the 59 #3 / 74 disk may be entirely irrelevant to their Op 18... FWIW, I have been told by a person who has heard every PI recording ever made that the Turners are the best for Beethoven SQ's... :)

8)
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Leon

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 21, 2010, 10:59:27 AM
No. I saw your post and would have replied, but my experience with the 59 #3 / 74 disk may be entirely irrelevant to their Op 18... FWIW, I have been told by a person who has heard every PI recording ever made that the Turners are the best for Beethoven SQ's... :)

8)

It is strange that these recordings are not easier to find (esp. Op. 18).  In looking around on the web for copies, I came across some comments that the playing on Op. 18 is very different from Op. 59/74 - advantage to Op. 18.  I have not heard either so I can't say one way or the other. 

Would be nice to have a PI set, though.  Maybe someone will get around to it along with the Piano Trios.  One can only hope.

I have several complete, or near complete, sets (Berg, Vegh [Naive & Haydn Society], Takacs, Italiano, Budapest, Borodin, and maybe one more I'm forgetting) of Beethoven SQ and like them all.

8)

George

Quote from: Peregrine on December 20, 2010, 12:40:46 PM
I always thought the Italian Quartet did this well, but it's a while since I listened and can't obtain the discs at present. Whilst not really enjoying their set as a whole, their Op.18 always struck me as just about perfect. Very well recorded and played.

Yo dude! Wzup!!

I am a big fan of the Italiano QT set of LvB QTs.

premont

Quote from: jlaurson on December 21, 2010, 04:24:54 AM
And to suggest the sound of an instrument makes a Beethoven String Quartet cycle worth being considered above others, possibly better played ones, is also questionable for all but the most obsessed (14-cycles-is-not-enough) collectors. For those interested, they should just get the first volume and invest the rest in something else, methinks.

You can call me obsessed (I own 26 cycles - the Alexander Qt.´s first take among them), but judged from your words I think I can stay away form their second take, which also is very difficult to get hold of in Europe - or what?
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Peregrine

Quote from: George on December 21, 2010, 11:31:45 AM
Yo dude! Wzup!!

I am a big fan of the Italiano QT set of LvB QTs.

How's it hanging, my man?! *said in a rather stoical, not quite right, middleish class accent*

If we're moving on to complete sets, then the Juilliard SQ rule my world by a long shot. I live on planet Juilliard etc, etc....

:P
Yes, we have no bananas

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leon on December 21, 2010, 11:26:41 AM
It is strange that these recordings are not easier to find (esp. Op. 18).  In looking around on the web for copies, I came across some comments that the playing on Op. 18 is very different from Op. 59/74 - advantage to Op. 18.  I have not heard either so I can't say one way or the other. 

Would be nice to have a PI set, though.  Maybe someone will get around to it along with the Piano Trios.  One can only hope.

I have several complete, or near complete, sets (Berg, Vegh [Naive & Haydn Society], Takacs, Italiano, Budapest, Borodin, and maybe one more I'm forgetting) of Beethoven SQ and like them all.

8)

Yes, PI Beethoven is all over the map. Nearly half of the Pianoforte trios and maybe half of the string quartets have never even been done! Unbelievable!

So my full cycles are all MI; the Tokyo, Alexander I, Medici & Borodin. I have some nice chunks of others, like the Amadeus (early) and Italiano (late). And whatever PI is available (Smithson, Turner, Eroica, Mosaiques). Really, I have highly listenable versions of every quartet, so beyond getting some PI filled out, I'm not really shopping these works. :)

8)
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George

Quote from: Peregrine on December 21, 2010, 11:39:00 AM
How's it hanging, my man?! *said in a rather stoical, not quite right, middleish class accent*

If we're moving on to complete sets, then the Juilliard SQ rule my world by a long shot. I live on planet Juilliard etc, etc....

:P

I know, it's on my shelf due to your recommendation. 8)

karlhenning

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 21, 2010, 11:52:17 AM
Yes, PI Beethoven is all over the map. Nearly half of the Pianoforte trios and maybe half of the string quartets have never even been done! Unbelievable!

So my full cycles are all MI; the Tokyo, Alexander I, Medici & Borodin. I have some nice chunks of others, like the Amadeus (early) and Italiano (late). And whatever PI is available (Smithson, Turner, Eroica, Mosaiques). Really, I have highly listenable versions of every quartet, so beyond getting some PI filled out, I'm not really shopping these works. :)

8)

While I cannot judge what I have not heard, of course . . . the Beethoven quartets seem to me to do quite wonderfully with modern technique.  I expect the Vermeer Quartet to affirm this ; )

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 21, 2010, 11:58:06 AM
While I cannot judge what I have not heard, of course . . . the Beethoven quartets seem to me to do quite wonderfully with modern technique.  I expect the Vermeer Quartet to affirm this ; )

Tone color, repeats... of course, I greatly enjoy my moderns, Karl, you are quite right. I would like to hear them done as I like though. :)

8)
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karlhenning

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 21, 2010, 12:00:30 PM
Tone color, repeats... of course, I greatly enjoy my moderns, Karl, you are quite right. I would like to hear them done as I like though. :)

8)

Nothing wrong with enjoying a little variety, Gurn. Country and Western . . . .

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 21, 2010, 12:04:32 PM
Nothing wrong with enjoying a little variety, Gurn. Country and Western . . . .

Well, let's just head on down to Gurn's Beethoven Bunker then... ;D

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

jlaurson

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on December 21, 2010, 08:58:18 AM
I've had a weird ride through the quartets. It was the late quartets that grabbed me immediately, then a few years later Op.18 (Tokyo rules) and then...well, I still haven't fallen in love with the Razumovskys. Like I said, weird.

Sarge

For me, op.18 with the Takacs SQ4t (live and on record) had been a revelation...

Purely on record, at about the same time, the Vegh Quartet Razumovsky Quartets proved themselves some of the finest SQ4t experience ever.
Also the 2nd Juilliard SQ4t "Harp" Quartet did much for my appreciation of op.59.

Mandryka

Quote from: jlaurson on December 21, 2010, 01:25:01 PM
For me, op.18 with the Takacs SQ4t (live and on record) had been a revelation...

Purely on record, at about the same time, the Vegh Quartet Razumovsky Quartets proved themselves some of the finest SQ4t experience ever.
Also the 2nd Juilliard SQ4t "Harp" Quartet did much for my appreciation of op.59.

Yes but -- is it what I'm looking for?

Where I'm coming from is this: Gulda and Gould are really interesting  in the early piano sonatas just because they emphasise the wit, the humour, and underplay the wisdom, the ineffable, the spiritual, the angst.

What I'm wondering is -- does anyone do likewise in the early string quartets?

BTW I've ordered the Turners' Op 18s -- I thought their Op 59/3 is a real revelation -- I love the texture they give the music, the detail that they bring out.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen