Beethoven's String Quartets

Started by marvinbrown, July 14, 2007, 02:29:06 PM

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Herman

Quote from: Mandryka on December 20, 2010, 11:40:25 AM
Anyone know this one from Quatuor Turner?

I've got an agenda -- I'm looking for a set of Op 18s which plays down the relation with later Beethoven -- in the slow movement of Op 18/1 for example. And which plays up the classical, playful, relatively youthful spirit of the music.

Sugestions appreciated.

I think most quartets approach the op. 18 from up front, rather than from beyond. Maybe the Italians and the Smetana are a little more ponderous than some others, but in general you will find a lighter touch in op. 18.

Herman

Quote from: DavidRoss on December 21, 2010, 07:13:50 AM
And the first violinist.  Ge-Fang Yang left several years ago and Zack Grafilo took his place.  Also they have matured a bit, like a fine wine.  Their playing is warm, affectionate, graceful, unpretentious.  They're as comfortable with the music as if they were old friends conversing after dinner.  There's no sense of shouting," Hey, listen up...this is important music, goddammit!" or "Hey, listen up...we're virtuosi and special, bet you never heard it like this before!"
Well, I'm happy to be a simpleton.  It was a long, tough battle to escape the clutches of intellectualism which shackles us with sweet deceits, whispering, "You're smarter, therefore you see more and you're better than most!"

I'm terribly prejudiced in favor of the Alexander Qt.  They're the home team and over the years I've heard them play the entire LvB cycle plus plenty of Shosty and Wolfie and some new music as well.  They're one of the Bay Area's many musical treasures--and if you ever get a chance to hear them, I hope your prejudices against quartets that aren't household names with Universal or Sony recording contracts doesn't prevent you from enjoying the opportunity.  Lengthy excerpts from several of their recordings are available on their site, here: http://www.asq4.com/audio.htm


It's great you support the home team this way, BUT, if you talk about unpretentious and anti-intellectual, I believe the ASQ routinely have a special learned pre-recital talk to prep the audience, which is not my idea of unpretentious (though I have no doubt this Beethoven SQ lecture will feature some timely prairie home companion quips, this being America).

There's just no getting around it: the LvB string quartets (and 95% of all other string quartets) are part of an intense musical-intellectual tradition, but that doesn't mean the ASQ can't be "comfortable with the music, just like any other mature string quartet.

For a new recording, next to all the old reliables, I would recommend a younger, fiercer band, like the Petersen or the Prazak.

Peregrine

Quote from: Herman on December 22, 2010, 12:34:27 AM

For a new recording, next to all the old reliables, I would recommend a younger, fiercer band, like the Petersen or the Prazak.

I thoroughly endorse the Petersen set. I say set, it's not quite finished. Will it ever be? Their Op.130 is particularly good I think.
Yes, we have no bananas

Mandryka

#443
Quote from: Herman on December 22, 2010, 12:26:17 AM
I think most quartets approach the op. 18 from up front, rather than from beyond. Maybe the Italians and the Smetana are a little more ponderous than some others, but in general you will find a lighter touch in op. 18.

Yes maybe -- but there's that  slow movement in Op 18/1 which has sort of pre echoes of the late quartets -- at least as my one version (The Budapest) play it. I have two of the Leipzigs Op 18 CDs -- but not the one with 18/1. I only have the Itallians, Smetanas and Juilliards in the later quartets.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darĂ¼ber muss man schweigen

Sergeant Rock

#444
Quote from: jlaurson on December 21, 2010, 01:25:01 PM
Purely on record, at about the same time, the Vegh Quartet Razumovsky Quartets proved themselves some of the finest SQ4t experience ever.

I have the Vegh op.59/2 and 3. I'll give the CD another listen (it's been many years since the last spin). Since last night I've had the Smetana's op.59/1 on repeat. I'm either going to end up loving the quartet or I'll never want to hear it again  :D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Brian on December 21, 2010, 10:14:15 AM
Oh gosh! Well, here's a 30 second clip (at least I hope that works...)

Thanks for the clip Brian. It sounds great and quite different than my other versions. But geez...do I really need another set? It's not the expense (it costs next to nothing)...it's the time and space requirements. At some point, at my age, you just have to say enough is enough. Still, very tempting. Damn Scarpia to hell  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Todd




I've worked my way through the Op 18, and as expected, I enjoy this set.  I did take the time to compare Op 18/4 with the 1941 and 1951 recordings, and the differences are not especially large.  Generally, with each earlier recording the tightness of ensemble and rhythmic precision improve, and the speed increases slightly, but overall the recordings are similar.  Pronouncements of great differences that I've read elsewhere seem a bit overdone.  Sonically, though, this is the best set, much better than the 1951 cycle and better, though not by as much as might be expected, than the 1941 set.  This is "old fashioned" LvB playing, but that's quite alright with me.  I'll take this or the Vegh's second cycle over pretty much any other ensemble any day, with only the Prazak Quartet amongst new fangled groups being in the same class for me.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

snyprrr

Quote from: Peregrine on December 22, 2010, 04:54:19 AM
I thoroughly endorse the Petersen set. I say set, it's not quite finished. Will it ever be? Their Op.130 is particularly good I think.

I've been looking at that Peterson.

snyprrr

Quote from: Mandryka on December 21, 2010, 01:39:00 PM
Yes but -- is it what I'm looking for?

Where I'm coming from is this: Gulda and Gould are really interesting  in the early piano sonatas just because they emphasise the wit, the humour, and underplay the wisdom, the ineffable, the spiritual, the angst.

What I'm wondering is -- does anyone do likewise in the early string quartets?

BTW I've ordered the Turners' Op 18s -- I thought their Op 59/3 is a real revelation -- I love the texture they give the music, the detail that they bring out.

Suske in Op.18 for playing it straight. I know I raved over their whole survey, but Op.18 is the IS.

Bogey

Quote from: Todd on December 26, 2010, 08:51:29 AM


  I'll take this or the Vegh's second cycle over pretty much any other ensemble any day, with only the Prazak Quartet amongst new fangled groups being in the same class for me.

This is why I have stopped buying LvB SQ's unless they are in the used bin and priced low.  Now you have me wondering about this Budapest.  Can you give a comparison of timings between this set and the second Vegh effort Todd?  Op. 18 No1 would do nicely, if possible.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Todd

Quote from: Bogey on December 26, 2010, 08:30:58 PMCan you give a comparison of timings between this set and the second Vegh effort Todd?  Op. 18 No1 would do nicely, if possible.


Sure.

Budapest '58:
7:16
10:34
3:11
6:24


Vegh '74
9:27
9:32
3:30
5:54
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

karlhenning

Quote from: Bogey on December 26, 2010, 08:30:58 PM
This is why I have stopped buying LvB SQ's unless they are in the used bin and priced low.

I'm in much the same space, though for slightly different reasons : )

Bogey

Quote from: Todd on December 27, 2010, 07:36:51 AM

Sure.

Budapest '58:
7:16
10:34
3:11
6:24


Vegh '74
9:27
9:32
3:30
5:54

Darn.  I was hoping the Vegh to be slower throughout.  Now I need to hear the Budapest effort, as the slower the SQ's get, the happier I seem to become. ;D
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

DavidRoss

Quote from: Bogey on December 26, 2010, 08:30:58 PM
This is why I have stopped buying LvB SQ's unless they are in the used bin and priced low.
I stopped because I pretty well had it covered with the Emersons, Vegh, Takacs, and Alexander, but Scarpia's notice of the complete Vermeer set for ~$20 forced me to open my wallet!  (Now if only Arrau's sonata cycle would be reissued at bargain price....)
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

George

Quote from: Bogey on December 27, 2010, 07:49:10 AM
Darn.  I was hoping the Vegh to be slower throughout.  Now I need to hear the Budapest effort, as the slower the SQ's get, the happier I seem to become. ;D

Your comment called to mind something I read in a book about chamber music some time ago. I just pulled it out, so as to quote it correctly. It is about the lovely slow movement from Op. 132:

"Someone has irreverently described the piece as like a man seeing how slowly he can ride a bicycle without falling off."

;D

karlhenning


Bogey

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

George

Quote from: Todd on December 27, 2010, 07:36:51 AM

Sure.

Budapest '58: Budapest '40    Budapest '52
7:16                6:48                7:11
10:34              9:43                9:58
3:11                2:58                3:13
6:24                6:02                6:17


Vegh '74
9:27
9:32
3:30
5:54

For comparison, above I have posted in red the 1940 and 1951 timings of the same work by the Budapest QT.

Scarpia

Quote from: Todd on December 26, 2010, 08:51:29 AMwith only the Prazak Quartet amongst new fangled groups being in the same class for me.

Care to elaborate?

Todd

Quote from: Scarpia on December 27, 2010, 08:40:04 AMCare to elaborate?



Sure.  My preference in Beethoven's quartets has long been for ensembles of earlier generations.  As technically polished as most current ensembles are, they lack a certain something that the Budapest (quite polished, especially earlier) and the Vegh, and even the Hungarian Quartet bring.  Call it musical bonhomie, if you will (or whatever else may work), earlier ensembles just have something I prefer.  The Prazak manages better than most to offer what ensembles of yore offered.  They are technically impeccable, and certainly more assertive, possibly even aggressive at times, than the older ensembles, but they blend together quite nicely.  They are just superb in every way.  (Their Dvorak, Janacek, and Smetana all display the same thing.)  I dare say that if the Panocha end their career with an LvB cycle, it, too, would offer something similar.  Maybe it's something in the water in Central Europe?
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya