Beethoven's String Quartets

[Herman]

Interesting, I don't hear a lot of similarity between Prazak and Panocha.

Prazak sounds like a younger group to me; they rock harder, so to speak.

[Scarpia]

Sure.  My preference in Beethoven's quartets has long been for ensembles of earlier generations.  As technically polished as most current ensembles are, they lack a certain something that the Budapest (quite polished, especially earlier) and the Vegh, and even the Hungarian Quartet bring.  Call it musical bonhomie, if you will (or whatever else may work), earlier ensembles just have something I prefer.  The Prazak manages better than most to offer what ensembles of yore offered.  They are technically impeccable, and certainly more assertive, possibly even aggressive at times, than the older ensembles, but they blend together quite nicely.  They are just superb in every way.  (Their Dvorak, Janacek, and Smetana all display the same thing.)  I dare say that if the Panocha end their career with an LvB cycle, it, too, would offer something similar.  Maybe it's something in the water in Central Europe?

Very interesting.  I'd have said the same thing (and in fact I have said the same thing many times) about the Vermeer quartet.

I have the Prazak recordings of the Brahms quartets, which I found quite good, although I have not found the time to listen to them more than once.  SACD audio is also an advantage.

On an unrelated note, I'm tempted to get the videos of the Alban Berg Quartet.  They are not my favorite ensemble, but seeing the performance makes the counterpoint easier to follow (as long as the camera work is not to intrusive).

[Todd]

Interesting, I don't hear a lot of similarity between Prazak and Panocha.

Stylistically, they are quite different, and the Panocha are less assertive.  What I am referring to is how they blend together.  It's hard to describe exactly, but some ensembles sometime sound like four individuals whereas others sound like a well oiled machine working perfectly in unison. 

Incidentally, the ensembles are both around forty years old and thus, one must assume, near the end of their careers.

[Herman]

Incidentally, the ensembles are both around forty years old and thus, one must assume, near the end of their careers.

gosh, I wasn't aware the Prazak Qt was from the early seventies.

[Mandryka]

I listened to Hagen's Op 18/4 the other day. I liked it very much . For one thing, their's brio -- especially in the final movement. For another, the balances are revealing -- at least there were bits of music which I felt I was hearing fr the first time.

And the style -- nothing comfortable or pastoral or complacent about the Hagens -- is very much to my taste. Timbres are lean, hard, clear, clean.

Has anyone heard their other Op 18s?

[jlaurson]

Incidentally, the ensembles are both around forty years old and thus, one must assume, near the end of their careers.

This would be news to the Prazak Quartet members, I assure you. They might not feel like one positively needed to assume that. They got together as wee lads and still have a bit of life in them, yet. On average, I think they're younger than the Takacs Quartet (in its current line-up).

[DavidRoss]

I listened to Hagen's Op 18/4 the other day. I liked it very much . For one thing, their's brio -- especially in the final movement. For another, the balances are revealing -- at least there were bits of music which I felt I was hearing fr the first time.

And the style -- nothing comfortable or pastoral or complacent about the Hagens -- is very much to my taste. Timbres are lean, hard, clear, clean.

Has anyone heard their other Op 18s?

Only 18/1.  They also recorded 59/1, 95, and several of the late quartets.  "Brio" is right.  Also "chutpah"--but they carry it off with a radical reimagining that works.  I wish they would record them all for that would probably make an alternate cycle to treasure.

[Drasko]

Only 18/1.  They also recorded 59/1, 95, and several of the late quartets.

They did record all of the late quartets for DG, but most of it is out of print, don't know even if all their CDs were released outside German market. Their last release for DG was 5-6 years ago (Shostakovich), so it seems they moved labels. New small German label Myrios Music is advertising new Mozart/Beethoven/Webern disc for next year, so there might be chance for finishing the Beethoven cycle in some future.

[DavidRoss]

They did record all of the late quartets for DG, but most of it is out of print, don't know even if all their CDs were released outside German market. Their last release for DG was 5-6 years ago (Shostakovich), so it seems they moved labels. New small German label Myrios Music is advertising new Mozart/Beethoven/Webern disc for next year, so there might be chance for finishing the Beethoven cycle in some future.

So they have, thanks for the correction.  Would be nice if they at least recorded 59/2&3 and 74 -- or did I miss those, too? 

[Mandryka]

You can download a lot of recordings from the Hagens -- including their Mozart -- from the DG website.

For Beethoven there's all the late ones , 18/1, 59/1 and Op 18/4.

I'll download that Op 18/1 and Op 59/1 soon unless someone posts to say it's not interesting.

I'm also curious about the Op 127 -- I like this quartet.

The Hagen's Op 18/4 is exactly the style  I was looking for!

[Todd]

On average, I think they're younger than the Takacs Quartet (in its current line-up).

Really, they're younger on average than the current Takacs line-up?  I'm not so sure.  In any event, both ensembles (and the Panocha, and even the Emerson while I'm at it) are getting a bit long in the tooth, and the only way they will survive for a long time at the highest level, say more than another decade or so, would be to replace the members, making them a new fangled Juilliard.  That is, they wouldn't be the same ensembles at all. 

[Scarpia]

Only 18/1.  They also recorded 59/1, 95, and several of the late quartets.  "Brio" is right.  Also "chutpah"--but they carry it off with a radical reimagining that works.  I wish they would record them all for that would probably make an alternate cycle to treasure.

I do like the Hagen Quartet's Mozart cycle and have a few installments of their Beethoven.  It would be a shame if they were not able to continue recording in the future.

[karlhenning]

Heard my favorite set, the Vermeer Quartet?

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//2564613992.htm

They've reached super-bargain status.  I hate to think what I paid for them back in the day.  Probably paid more for a single disc than I would have to pay for the cycle.

I've never heard them but recall them being highly regarded by some and having bid on their cycle in the past back when Ebay was a good source for CDs.

Just placed my order with MDT ~$25 with shipping to the States.

Thank you both (and you, too, Brian!) . . . that really was too good to pass up.

It's been holiday season, so the delay was to be anticipated . . . I am pleased that confirmation has come in at last that the set is now shipping.

[RJR]

The Hungarian String Quartet. Three volumes. Best of luck finding them on cds. I have them on nasty ol' LPs.

[RJR]

I've worked my way through the Op 18, and as expected, I enjoy this set.  I did take the time to compare Op 18/4 with the 1941 and 1951 recordings, and the differences are not especially large.  Generally, with each earlier recording the tightness of ensemble and rhythmic precision improve, and the speed increases slightly, but overall the recordings are similar.  Pronouncements of great differences that I've read elsewhere seem a bit overdone.  Sonically, though, this is the best set, much better than the 1951 cycle and better, though not by as much as might be expected, than the 1941 set.  This is "old fashioned" LvB playing, but that's quite alright with me.  I'll take this or the Vegh's second cycle over pretty much any other ensemble any day, with only the Prazak Quartet amongst new fangled groups being in the same class for me.

Funny, they were all Russians from 1940 on.

[Holden]

I only own one set of these plus a small number of recordings of the early and middle SQs from the likes of Tokyo, etc and the Hollywood SQ performing the late ones. The box set I have is by the Hungarian SQ and the reason I have it is because it was going very cheaply in a record store and I knew the name. However, I rarely listen to it as it just doesn't grab me.

What inspired me was a comment on this forum regarding QI and their performances yet when I checked listener reviews they ranged from 'oustanding' to 'boring'. A quick listen to a few youtubes didn't really help that much either though I know that I do like the sound they make.

So, what is your ideal integral set of the LvB SQs and most importantly - why? Is it the old Busch, the Lindsays, Berg, Cleveland, Julliard or what?

For my listening tastes I like chamber music with a bit of bite, yet lyricism without being too syrupy. I want to hear each instrument clearly delineated but don't want it overly analytical. To give you an idea, my favourite all time chamber recording is the BAT Hummel piano trios. In second place is the Hollywood SQ's rendering of the Schubert Piano Quintet.

[George]

So, what is your ideal integral set of the LvB SQs and most importantly - why? Is it the old Busch, the Lindsays, Berg, Cleveland, Julliard or what?

For my listening tastes I like chamber music with a bit of bite, yet lyricism without being too syrupy. I want to hear each instrument clearly delineated but don't want it overly analytical.

Based on what you say, I would think the QI set would be a good match for you. Or maybe the Alban Berg on EMI?

[Brahmsian]

I second George's recommendation for Quartetto Italiano.  I also really like the Takacs for the late quartets, and particularly Op.135

[Mandryka]

Well for me I want readings which don't sound comfortable and smug. Above all I want to avoid slow movements which  suggest an Edwardian gentleman wiping away a tear with his handkerchief. And I want some freshness and edginess. For me this is supremely non quaint, non pastoral, non Viennese cafe, non Palm Court,  highly knowing music. Street wise urban music.

In terms of texture I like things lean sounding And I want to hear the polyphony -- there needs to be some transparency.

This may not be your thing -- you may want something a bit richer and a bit more slick.

But if you can I don't think you'll be sorry to at least try to hear the  Hagen Quartet in the Op 18s and Op 133 and Op 136 and Serioso; Juiliard on Testment for Op 131; Smetana on Supraphon for Op 127 -136; the Lindsays in  Op 132, the Tatrai in Op 127; the Vlach in Op 131; the New Music Quartet and The Janacek Quartet in the Rasumowskies; Itallians in Op 127, Leipzig in Op 18s, Turner Quartet in the Rasumowskies.

[Octo_Russ]

I would say the Lindsay Quartet [especially No7, i feel they get the first movement just right, nice forward momentum], the Tokyo Quartet [who can be a bit sweet at times, but it suits the early Quartets], and certainly the Quartetto Italiano [who are very authoritive], these are my favourites.