Beethoven's String Quartets

[Mandryka]

Listened to Op 130 again last night and this morning . I listened to Busch and Hagen.. I was struck by the enormity of it, at least in the Hagens' conception The extreme intensity 1, the rhythms of 3, the apotheosis of dance in 4, the sadness of 5. And then the big fugue.

It's like that comment about Mahler 3 containing all the world -- or whatever he said.

The Andante con moto struck me as very special music this time round. And what imagination and courage it must have taken, to have included the Alla danza tedesca -- sandwiched between the complexity of the scherzo and complexity of the cavatina and the fugue.

What do you guys think of the GF ending? Busch do the revised ending and I thought that was a real shame. It seems right in the context of such big and complex music to end on a disorienting and forward looking note.

[Brahmsian]

What do you guys think of the GF ending? Busch do the revised ending and I thought that was a real shame. It seems right in the context of such big and complex music to end on a disorienting and forward looking note.

I prefer the Gross Fugue ending, but I also prefer the Gross Fugue on its own.  I think Op.130 would be even greater if it just ended with the Cavatina.    The revised ending of Op.130 is by far my least favorite movement of all in LVB's quartets.  It is repetitive and uninteresting.

[Sergeant Rock]

The revised ending of Op.130 is by far my least favorite movement of all in LVB's quartets.  It is repetitive...

Well, it is a Rondo...got to expect some repetition, Nut 

I do like it. In fact I prefer op.130 played with the revised ending: a true Classical-era Finale. After the Cavatina the work needs something lighter to achieve that Classical-era balance (and even though it's a late work I still consider it an example of the Classical style). I enjoy the Grosse Fuge more when I hear it played as a stand-alone piece. I think the Hagen version is tremendous.

Sarge

[Brahmsian]

Well, it is a Rondo...got to expect some repetition, Nut 

I do like it. In fact I prefer the quartet played with the revised ending: a true Classical-era Finale. After the Cavatina the work needs something lighter to achieve that Classical-era balance (and even though it's a late work

Sarge

Well, I guess I like very bleak endings.  (See Tchaikovsky and Mahler 6th)   

[Scarpia]

I prefer the Gross Fugue ending, but I also prefer the Gross Fugue on its own.  I think Op.130 would be even greater if it just ended with the Cavatina.    The revised ending of Op.130 is by far my least favorite movement of all in LVB's quartets.  It is repetitive and uninteresting.

I strongly prefer the revised ending, which I find a delight and an appropriate close to the piece (plus, it would be orphaned if dissociated from the quartet).  Probably it is best for a quartet to record both and allow the listener to program them as they prefer.  But I feel the Grosse fugue stands best on its own, and I think it may work better when performed by a string orchestra.  I just wish Beethoven had done the same with his ninth symphony, written an instrumental finale and split off the choral finale as an independent cantata, as some suggest he had planned to do.

[Opus106]

I think [the Grosse Fuge] may work better when performed by a string orchestra.  I just wish Beethoven had done the same with his ninth symphony, written an instrumental finale and split off the choral finale as an independent cantata, as some suggest he had planned to do.

Then he wouldn't have been Beethoven. (That's Beethoven with an emboldened B.)

[Herman]

Next to the Italiano, the 1964-1970 Julliard set sure sounds modern to me.

The Julliard and the Italiano are the same generation, and the Juilliard's classic set was recorded earlier than the Italiano.

I'd say they belong in the same box, together with all the other string quartets that came from WWII (Amadeus is another one).

I say this too, because if the Juilliard's 1965-1975 recording is "modern" where does that leave recordings from the 1980s and later: ABQ and then the next generation: Prazak and Petersen?

[Scarpia]

Then he wouldn't have been Beethoven. (That's Beethoven with an emboldened B.)

Was Beethoven's idea (according to Czerny) although he never followed though on it, though he lived a few years after that.

[DavidRoss]

Mek, too--and I was notified that it had shipped more than two weeks ago.  Strange, since mail from the UK usually takes about 3 days.  Perhaps the fellows in customs are ripping their own copies.... 

Finally received the Vermeer set from MDT, more than a month after it shipped via air mail.  Strange.  Box arrived intact, obviously undisturbed since posting.  Now listening to op. 59:1.  Big sound--full and a bit dark--broad tempos but sharp, not soporific.  Might prove a nice alternative to the cycles I already have.

[George]

Yesterday I listened to Op. 18, Nos. 1-4 as performed by the Quartetto Italiano. Sounded as lovely as ever. 

[snyprrr]

Just listened to 59/3 by the Suske.

I haaave to bring them back into the conversation. I know Herman wasn't bowled over by the Late SQs, but for the Early & Middle SQs (especially the Early,... and.... Middle!) one might really want to consider this group (I don't know if the low prices still apply).

I think they nail 59/1-2 much better than the Vermeer (too caffeinated for me), and the group on the cheap Sony discs (Budapest?). Sure, the sound isn't DDD, but, I like the smell of the air in their recordings.

[DavidRoss]

Just listened to 59/3 by the Suske.  I think they nail 59/1-2 much better than the Vermeer (too caffeinated for me)

Wow.  If the Vermeer's "too caffeinated" then the Suske must be dirge-like!  (And the Emersons must make you feel like a tweaker scrubbing the sidewalk with a toothbrush!)

[Lethevich]

I strongly prefer the revised ending, which I find a delight and an appropriate close to the piece (plus, it would be orphaned if dissociated from the quartet).  Probably it is best for a quartet to record both and allow the listener to program them as they prefer.  But I feel the Grosse fugue stands best on its own, and I think it may work better when performed by a string orchestra.  I just wish Beethoven had done the same with his ninth symphony, written an instrumental finale and split off the choral finale as an independent cantata, as some suggest he had planned to do.

I am a bit late, but I feel that there's much to be gained for considering the revised finale followed by the Fugue as a fine way to envisage the whole piece - the fugue as some crazy expressionist postlude, but none the less really handy to hear at the same time as the revised quartet rather than seperately or either/or.

I love recordings that include the pieces in that order. It makes no sense for the fugue to come first, as it renders the very fine revised finale impotent in impact.

[Clever Hans]

To revive, what is your favorite set of the late quartets and why, specifically regarding string tone and restraint or lack thereof? Do you find some interpretations too indulgent, ruminative, romantic, or too polished, extrovert?

Some oft-cited examples:

Végh, Talich, Busch, Budapest (CBS masterworks), Alban Berg (live), Smetana (analog), Takács.

I can't make up my mind.

[George]

To revive, what is your favorite set of the late quartets and why, specifically regarding string tone and restraint or lack thereof? Do you find some interpretations too indulgent, ruminative, romantic, or too polished, extrovert?

Some oft-cited examples:

Végh, Talich, Busch, Budapest (CBS masterworks), Alban Berg (live), Smetana (analog), Takács.

I can't make up my mind.

Nor can I. It's nice that we don't have to choose.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

To revive, what is your favorite set of the late quartets and why, specifically regarding string tone and restraint or lack thereof? Do you find some interpretations too indulgent, ruminative, romantic, or too polished, extrovert?

Some oft-cited examples:

Végh, Talich, Busch, Budapest (CBS masterworks), Alban Berg (live), Smetana (analog), Takács.

I can't make up my mind.

For me it's an easy choice: Hagen.

Not that I don't like Vegh, Hollywood, Yale, which I also have. But hands down, Hagen.

As for why, well, the Hagen have a talent for probing any music they play more deeply than any other quartet I've heard. Beethoven is no exception. There's this feeling you get that they've meticuosly gone over every inch of the score (whatever score) so that nothing will be a surprise to them come playing time. This gives them the liberty to open up and dig into the musical line with a buoyancy and freshness that's quite ear-opening. And not to overlook their talent for whipping up loads of color! Again, tops in my book.

What else to say? They're just the most fun to listen to than any other quartet I know.

[George]

*ensutes Hagen QT gets onto his radar*

Lemme guess - OOP?

[DavidW]

As for why, well, the Hagen have a talent for probing any music they play more deeply than any other quartet I've heard.

Their Mozart sounded loud, vulgar.  I would hate to see what they do with Beethoven.

Clever Hans, your list is my list.  I suppose my favorite on there is the Smetana Quartet.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Their Mozart sounded loud, vulgar.  I would hate to see what they do with Beethoven.

Well, when you actually HEAR the recordings in question then come back and give an informed opinion, Dave.

Otherwise, step off....

As to the Hagen's Mozart, well, I OWN their disc of K.499, 589, & 590......whataya know, not a "vulgar" sound anywhere....   

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Lemme guess - OOP?

What else?

I spent months tracking down the individual discs. Well worth it, though.