Beethoven's String Quartets

[DavidW]

You were describing the Hagen Q as excelling in everything they touch, not just Beethoven, I was responding to that and thus don't need to "step off".  The exaggerated dynamics on the Mozart recordings are vulgar.  I think that set is for people who don't like Mozart.  It makes for a good first impression, but it is subtlety that is rewarding in the long run.  Drama is more enduring than melodrama.

[Mandryka]

You were describing the Hagen Q as excelling in everything they touch, not just Beethoven, I was responding to that and thus don't need to "step off".  The exaggerated dynamics on the Mozart recordings are vulgar.  I think that set is for people who don't like Mozart.  It makes for a good first impression, but it is subtlety that is rewarding in the long run.  Drama is more enduring than melodrama.

Oh but I play the disc with  K387 and K421 quite often and I really enjoy it. 

So either it's dramatic (not melodramatic) or melodrama is enduring or I don't like Mozart.

I tend to agree with DD about Hagens' Beethoven. One think I love about them is their ensemble playing: at their best I feel they are really listening to each other, reacting to other, playing as a team. I like the fact that they are iconoclastic, which I find stimulating. I like the way they think things through from scratch. In some sonatas -- the two recorded op 18s and  Op 135 -- they are probably my favourites by far.

And you know the style in Mozart is perhaps not inappropriate. He was a great writer of operas, and David Cairns has argued that an operatic sensibility is central to some of his non theatrical work

[Dancing Divertimentian]

You were describing the Hagen Q as excelling in everything they touch, not just Beethoven, I was responding to that and thus don't need to "step off".  The exaggerated dynamics on the Mozart recordings are vulgar.  I think that set is for people who don't like Mozart.  It makes for a good first impression, but it is subtlety that is rewarding in the long run.  Drama is more enduring than melodrama.

YES I described the Hagens as excelling in a wide range of repertoire because I OWN MANY HAGEN DISCS!!!!

The late Beethoven included.

You on the other hand have nothing of substance to add here except to extrapolate some inherent dislike of their Mozart and apply it across the board to everything the Hagen's have touched!!!

That's not valid "opinion". That's not valid anything. That's kindergarden.

Of course I AM guilty of making a blanket statement regarding the Hagens in a wide range of repertoire but there's nothing wrong with that. Gushing happens sometimes on GMG. Sue me. But I'm comfortable making blanket statements like that because I OWN many Hagen discs!

How many Hagen discs do you own??!?? 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Oh but I play the disc with  K387 and K421 quite often and I really enjoy it. 

So either it's dramatic (not melodramatic) or melodrama is enduring or I don't like Mozart.

Yes, refinement is another adjective I forgot to apply to the Hagens. They don't HAVE to exaggerate. The music is in their bones.

[George]

Those who wish to hear for themselves, can do so here - Op. 135, live by the Hagens from only two years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3o8hXy7QU

I only wish that the sound were better.

[DavidW]

So either it's dramatic (not melodramatic) or melodrama is enduring or I don't like Mozart.

I think from other posts that you like Mozart, but you prefer two flavors of performance: melodramatic and excessively romanticized.  Hagen Q falls into the former category.

Don, please calm down.

[Mandryka]

I think from other posts that you like Mozart, but you prefer two flavors of performance: melodramatic and excessively romanticized.  Hagen Q falls into the former category.

Don, please calm down.

You were describing the Hagen Q as excelling in everything they touch, not just Beethoven, I was responding to that and thus don't need to "step off".  The exaggerated dynamics on the Mozart recordings are vulgar.  I think that set is for people who don't like Mozart.  It makes for a good first impression, but it is subtlety that is rewarding in the long run.  Drama is more enduring than melodrama.

You mean I'm vulgar?                                   

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Don, please calm down.

My problem is your tendency to inflate your "opinion" when it isn't grounded in anything. What you're engaging in is little more than a smear job.

Of course, it doesn't help that you're stomping on one of my absolute favorite ensembles. But you really need to become familiar with their ideology before slighting them out of hand.

What the Hagen's are all about is summed up nicely in Mandryka's description:

One think I love about them is their ensemble playing: at their best I feel they are really listening to each other, reacting to other, playing as a team. I like the fact that they are iconoclastic, which I find stimulating. I like the way they think things through from scratch.

[Leon]

Those who wish to hear for themselves, can do so here - Op. 135, live by the Hagens from only two years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3o8hXy7QU

I only wish that the sound were better.

Yes, too bad the sound is not good, and the clip is so short - but the playing was very good.  I have no recordings of the Hagen Quartet, but judging from this short, badly recorded clip, it would be well worth investing in some of their work.

[Drasko]

Hagens released three DVDs relatively recently, and of course some of it made it to youtube, in better or worse audio video quality. I've picked two decent sounding ones, so everyone can judge for themselves, and base their whatever argument is on actual examples.

Mozart SQ No.14 K.387

http://www.youtube.com/v/JzKWbffbmiI
http://www.youtube.com/v/KNilUIV4oJ0
http://www.youtube.com/v/_NWcWajWNDg

Ravel SQ

http://www.youtube.com/v/ehQMe57TPPM
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZhN0RRlLhDg
http://www.youtube.com/v/dVURtE9kmbA
http://www.youtube.com/v/f7loz_Y5iOo

[kishnevi]

I have one Mozart disc by the Hagen Q and can't find any fault with it, although I wouldn't call it my favorite. 

However that's not what I want to post about.

A simple question: does anyone have an opinion, good bad or indifferent, about the Medici Quartet's Beethoven cycle?

[Bogey]

For the past two days I have been listening to No. 4, Op. 18, No. 4.  Why?  I just simply chose one off the shelf and decided to get into it a bit....random fun.

Really cool opening.  Almost a haunting start, but not at all what I expected.  However, once spinning I was locked.  It truly opens up in the 4th movement and has a feel of an earlier master.   Anyone else enjoy this one or any of the other 18's?  I know there are a lot of "late" fans here, but this Op. 18 run is a favorite of mine.  Here are the two recordings that I have been listening to:

This first recording seems to have a deper feel, with a run time of 25:01:




The second recording was surprisingly faster....in that I thought Vegh were considered one of the more slower paced ensmbles for these beauties.  Timed at 23:08.

[ccar]

For the past two days I have been listening to No. 4, Op. 18, No. 4.  Why?  I just simply chose one off the shelf and decided to get into it a bit....random fun.
Really cool opening.  Almost a haunting start, but not at all what I expected.  However, once spinning I was locked.  It truly opens up in the 4th movement and has a feel of an earlier master.   Anyone else enjoy this one or any of the other 18's?  I know there are a lot of "late" fans here, but this Op. 18 run is a favorite of mine. 

The Op.18 No.4 is also one of my favorites. There is still some sort of a Mozartian feel – where the sorrow is mixed with humor and gaiety.

The initial theme of the No.4 is most beautiful and the first movement is highly emotional and dramatic. For me it's like a personal exhortation, where the sadness of the opening gives the way to a renewed sense of energy, determination and even hope. And, in a way, I feel it is this positive attitude that seems to be developed through the other movements.

After the declamatory intensity of the first movement the repeated modulations of the second movement - Andante scherzoso - seem like a contrasting diversion, an exercise of counterpoint and abstract creation. But in the end of the movement there is again an emotional phrase, as if reminding the theme of the first movement.

The beginning of the third movement, Menuetto, recalls the first bars of the previous Andante scherzoso but  it grows into a more worldly development, first in a more restrained Allegretto and then 'più allegro', like a joyful evocation of life.

And the final movement, Allegro, is like a luminous statement of energy and confidence. The drive and the intense dialogue of the instruments are the most powerful contrast with the theme of the first movement – sorrow is transformed into commitment, passion and belief.

Naturally, there are many beautiful recordings to choose from. In the last days I tried a listening exercise of the Op18 No4 with the Budapest (1941, 1951, 1958), the Vegh (1952, 1973), the Pascal (1952), the Barylli (1952),  the Hungarian (1953, 1965), the Julliard (1968), the Beethoven (1970), the Italiano (1975) the Smetana (1976), the Talich (1981) and the Turner (1994). For me the most interesting is that (fortunately) they are all quite different from each other – even the ones who recorded the work more than once. So I just tend to choose the reading that goes into my own personal sensibility – or, maybe, my mood at the time. And it is exactly these differences that help me to get the most of each piece.

                                                                             
                                                                       http://www.youtube.com/v/bee_dNtWhco&feature=related

[Robert]

The Op.18 No.4 is also one of my favorites. There is still some sort of a Mozartian feel – where the sorrow is mixed with humor and gaiety.

The initial theme of the No.4 is most beautiful and the first movement is highly emotional and dramatic. For me it's like a personal exhortation, where the sadness of the opening gives the way to a renewed sense of energy, determination and even hope. And, in a way, I feel it is this positive attitude that seems to be developed through the other movements.

After the declamatory intensity of the first movement the repeated modulations of the second movement - Andante scherzoso - seem like a contrasting diversion, an exercise of counterpoint and abstract creation. But in the end of the movement there is again an emotional phrase, as if reminding the theme of the first movement.

The beginning of the third movement, Menuetto, recalls the first bars of the previous Andante scherzoso but  it grows into a more worldly development, first in a more restrained Allegretto and then 'più allegro', like a joyful evocation of life.

And the final movement, Allegro, is like a luminous statement of energy and confidence. The drive and the intense dialogue of the instruments are the most powerful contrast with the theme of the first movement – sorrow is transformed into commitment, passion and belief.

Naturally, there are many beautiful recordings to choose from. In the last days I tried a listening exercise of the Op18 No4 with the Budapest (1941, 1951, 1958), the Vegh (1952, 1973), the Pascal (1952), the Barylli (1952),  the Hungarian (1953, 1965), the Julliard (1968), the Beethoven (1970), the Italiano (1975) the Smetana (1976), the Talich (1981) and the Turner (1994). For me the most interesting is that (fortunately) they are all quite different from each other – even the ones who recorded the work more than once. So I just tend to choose the reading that goes into my own personal sensibility – or, maybe, my mood at the time. And it is exactly these differences that help me to get the most of each piece.

                                                                             
                                                                       http://www.youtube.com/v/bee_dNtWhco&feature=related
[/quote
pssst.....You forgot the TOKYO   

[Lethevich]

Strangely, I couldn't find a thread. There was one in beginners and one in the general sub-forums, but no recordings thread. If there is, merge away! Apologies for not opening the thread with more content, but I'm not well-versed with these works.

Anyway: does anyone have any views on the New Budapest Quartet/Hyperion?

Also, since the Artemis cycle has been boxed, I am looking towards this too, but outside of a few of the more recent issues, it is hard to find much discussion on the recordings.

[DavidW]

I didn't know that the Artemis cycle had been finished.  I've watched as much as I could find of their Beethoven on youtube I really like their passionate playing.

[Karl Henning]

Hmm, not sure on just which thread a bunch of us were pounding the table for the Vermeer Quartet set, which for a while could be had for a song.

[DavidW]

Oh for a second I thought you were talking about Gewandhaus!

I think we're in different Beethoven SQ cliques Karl.

[SonicMan46]

Sara - I also remember contributing to a thread on these works, so some searching brought up THIS ONE - out to 29 pages w/ a recent post this month - Dave 

[Lethevich]

I didn't know that the Artemis cycle had been finished.  I've watched as much as I could find of their Beethoven on youtube I really like their passionate playing.

As it's EMI, the price is probably going to end up catastrophically low too Atm, for once, it isn't (but still good value).

[asin]B0057JWVKQ[/asin]
There is one surreal review on Amazon UK which gives it three stars with the title "incomplete". The reason? They don't record the alternate finale for Op.133. It's not like they left they bloody thing unfinished