Beethoven's String Quartets

[jlaurson]

Well, I think you're all wrong about Tokyo 2.

Mybe I could see your review Jens, and think about it point by point. That could be fun.

I'm not sure there is a review... except comments, perhaps mildly detailed, I've typed out on this forum.

I think the most complex parts in the late quartets are ambiguously interpreted, borderline sloppy really... and (although this goes against everything I know of the quartet) technically beyond their reach. I would have understood it in a live recording (which I initially assumed it was), but I don't understand how they listened to the take and said: Yep... that's exactly how we want it. I have no cello issues. I'm glad, actually, the cello doesn't boom and dominate, which that particular instrument (ex-Corcoran Strad.) is prone to. (Though not as much as the other Library of Congress Strad Cello.)

[Parsifal]

Well, I think you're all wrong about Tokyo 2.

What is special about the Tokyo is that they avoid excitement. It's peaceful, noble, refined and rather classical. You couldn't be further from jejeune ideas about this music: Beethoven the alpha male, the super hero involved in some sort of sweaty promethian striving. And that makes the reading 21st century in outlook, iconic. Geo Dude asked for modern playing. This is it.

For peaceful, noble, refined, there is the Italiano.  The recent Tokyo struck me as just vague in execution.   I probably should listen to them again, and maybe they would benefit from headphone listening, rather than speakers.

[Geo Dude]

I'm listening to a live recording of the Prazák Op. 59, No. 1 on YouTube now.  I like their approach quite a bit.  If their 135 (also a live recording) holds up well I'll keep that set in mind for the future.   Meanwhile, based on samples I quite like the Artemis quartet for a full set and think the Takács approach works quite well in the middle quartets.



Sorry for the interruption, you may now return to your regularly scheduled arguing about the Tokyo Quartet's new recordings.
(Seriously, keep it up, the information is interesting.)

[kishnevi]

Well, I think you're all wrong about Tokyo 2.

What is special about the Tokyo is that they avoid excitement. It's peaceful, noble, refined and rather classical. You couldn't be further from jejeune ideas about this music: Beethoven the alpha male, the super hero involved in some sort of sweaty promethian striving. And that makes the reading 21st century in outlook, iconic. Geo Dude asked for modern playing. This is it.

I thought there were many new and interesting  things in there. i've never heard op133 played  so calmly and contrapuntally and level headedly. That was for me a revelation, in itself making the set worth keeping. As was the serenity of the adagio op127.

Mybe I could see your review Jens, and think about it point by point. That could be fun.

I don't have a problem with the cello.

By the way, The Turner Quartet op59 has similar qualities. Which I thought was especially nteresting in op 59, a set of works I usually can't stand.

But for those of us who don't particularly want noble, refined, peaceful, especially in those late quartets....!
However,  TQ2's performance of Op. 59 didn't strike me as being particularly refined or peaceful.  It's possible to play those works with less refinement and classicism than they did, of course, but refined classical irenity is not an approach that I think really works well once you move past Op. 18.   What exactly is refined or peaceful about about a Russian peasant song, anyway?  Op. 59 is one of those places in which Beethoven was beginning to move beyond the standard "classical" approach.   At leas a little tumult is appropriate to the performance there.

[Parsifal]

But for those of us who don't particularly want noble, refined, peaceful, especially in those late quartets....!
However,  TQ2's performance of Op. 59 didn't strike me as being particularly refined or peaceful.  It's possible to play those works with less refinement and classicism than they did, of course, but refined classical irenity is not an approach that I think really works well once you move past Op. 18.   What exactly is refined or peaceful about about a Russian peasant song, anyway?  Op. 59 is one of those places in which Beethoven was beginning to move beyond the standard "classical" approach.   At leas a little tumult is appropriate to the performance there.

I am more inclined to appreciate peaceful in the late quartets than the early.  The Op 18, in particular, warrant a somewhat aggressive approach to highlight the manner in which they depart from Mozart and Haydn.  But my impression (which is subject to revision after another listen) is that the Italiano does peaceful Beethoven more effectively than Tokyo Quartets recent cycle.

[kishnevi]

I am more inclined to appreciate peaceful in the late quartets than the early.  The Op 18, in particular, warrant a somewhat aggressive approach to highlight the manner in which they depart from Mozart and Haydn.  But my impression (which is subject to revision after another listen) is that the Italiano does peaceful Beethoven more effectively than Tokyo Quartets recent cycle.

I like the Italiano very much, mostly because I find their approach to emphasize head over heart--intellect over emotion.  But the late quartets are not completely emotion free, and I wouldn't call their playing refined and noble for the entire cycle.  The Emersons have a similar approach in the late quartets but not as thorough and not, IMO, as successful.  (I don't have their recordings of Op. 18 or the middle quartets.)

Not sure how this would map onto your descriptions of peaceful v aggressive.

[Pat B]

I'm looking for a cycle--or individual middle and late quartets if necessary--with a 'modern' playing style; in other words some vibrato is fine but I'd prefer that it not be used constantly.  Any suggestions?

Also, how is the Talich recording, sound aside?

Talich is my only cycle, and it sounds like your taste may be similar to mine. I've been happy with it, especially considering the price. They use vibrato frequently but not incessantly.

From the samples I've heard of Takács and others in the late works, Talich is close to the opposite end of the aggressiveness spectrum. I've been considering picking up the Takács as a contrasting version.

[Mandryka]

But for those of us who don't particularly want noble, refined, peaceful, especially in those late quartets....!
However,  TQ2's performance of Op. 59 didn't strike me as being particularly refined or peaceful.  It's possible to play those works with less refinement and classicism than they did, of course, but refined classical irenity is not an approach that I think really works well once you move past Op. 18.   What exactly is refined or peaceful about about a Russian peasant song, anyway?  Op. 59 is one of those places in which Beethoven was beginning to move beyond the standard "classical" approach.   At leas a little tumult is appropriate to the performance there.

I liked TQ in 59/3 because  the sound is consistently quite transparent, so that even when one instrument out of the four is carrying a tune the texture is more intreresting than melody and background. I also like the way they're so relaxed. I like their way of lightening up the vertical weight of notes and sforzandi.

(EDIT, I misread you, I thought you were writing about Turner Quartet! I haven't heard Tokyo Quartet's op 59s. So the above is a total non sequitur)

[Mandryka]

I'm listening to a live recording of the Prazák Op. 59, No. 1 on YouTube now.  I like their approach quite a bit.  If their 135 (also a live recording) holds up well I'll keep that set in mind for the future.   Meanwhile, based on samples I quite like the Artemis quartet for a full set and think the Takács approach works quite well in the middle quartets.



Sorry for the interruption, you may now return to your regularly scheduled arguing about the Tokyo Quartet's new recordings.
(Seriously, keep it up, the information is interesting.)

Prazak live can be extremely good, though I haven't had a chance to hear those things you found on youtube yet. I can let you have some very fine stuff, Haydn, Dvorak,and Schumann but I have no live Beethoven.

As far as modern Beethoven playing goes apart from Tokyo and Turner, look out for Ebene ( Again I can let you have a performance of op 131), and Paval Haas. i saw Paval Haas play op130/133 in London a few months ago and it was outstanding.

You may also like to seek out stiff by Cuarteto Casals, I have an interesting op 130 from Barcelona a couple of years ago.

[Brian]

As far as modern Beethoven playing goes apart from Tokyo and Turner, look out for Ebene ( Again I can let you have a performance of op 131), and Paval Haas. i saw Paval Haas play op130/133 in London a few months ago and it was outstanding.

Agreed on Pavel Haas. It's no secret they're just about my favorite active quartet, but a great live Op 59/1 in London is one of the reasons why.

[Peregrine]

An ensemble I've never been able to connect with in Beethoven are the Hollywood SQ. Just don't understand the fuss.

[Peregrine]

I stand by my Juilliard rec though. Fantastic set.

[George]

I stand by my Juilliard rec though. Fantastic set.

Thanks again for the recommendation on that one! These days it's OOP.

[Peregrine]

Thanks again for the recommendation on that one! These days it's OOP.

George! Hope you are well 

It does appear to have gone that way, unfortunately. Hope that's rectified as it's far too good to miss IMO.

[George]

George! Hope you are well 

I am awesome!! Hope you are the same, Simon!

It does appear to have gone that way, unfortunately. Hope that's rectified as it's far too good to miss IMO.

Yeah, perhaps one of those cheapo SONY boxes that have been coming out, preferably with none of that crappy mastering that they have been doing. 

[Brian]

Prazak Quartet SACD box set on sale at MDT for US $48. Lowest price I have EVER seen - previously I'd seen it at $80, but at Amazon USA it's $93.

[Parsifal]

Prazak Quartet SACD box set on sale at MDT for US $48. Lowest price I have EVER seen - previously I'd seen it at $80, but at Amazon USA it's $93.

I had the notion to order it, but the mdt site went dead on me when I tried to check out my shopping cart.  Maybe there's a message for me.

P.S., I don't think all of the discs in the set are SACD, at least judging by the prior releases that the set is apparently compiled from.

[sam adams]

Don't know if this is old news, but prestoclassical has the Vegh 1970's set for download for $28.50 for MP3 and only $33.00 for lossless FLAC.




http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Naive/V4871#download

[jlaurson]

I have an extra copy of the Gewandhaus Beethoven String Quartet set -- in the inconvenient packaging -- which I am about to return to the seller (I had specifically wanted the new format)... lest someone is interested in it, for €20,- +Sh.

[Brian]

"I was once discussing Beethoven chamber works with a colleague, a violin professor who had played extensively in Europe. I showed him an old LP recording of the Razumovsky quartets that had given me much delight. It had a photograph of the performing ensemble on the cover, four rather serious-looking gentlemen who together had made a successful career for themselves as a string quartet in the 1950s and '60s. Ah! My friend was acquainted with them, and he told me that this particular quartet was notorious. These four artists so despised each other that except for pure business, they avoided speaking, and where possible always stayed at four different hotels when traveling."

- The Art Instinct, Denis Dutton, p. 225

Anybody know who this quartet could be??