Beethoven's String Quartets

Started by marvinbrown, July 14, 2007, 02:29:06 PM

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George

Which set do folks think is the most intense, the most tough and rough around the edges?
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

DavidW

I think that 60's Juilliard is pretty rough, pretty intense.  Artemis Quartet plays the fast movements very aggressively. 

George

Quote from: DavidW on August 13, 2013, 06:01:15 PM
I think that 60's Juilliard is pretty rough, pretty intense. 

I have that set, but I wanted to make sure I had a rough/intense set. I figured someone would have taken it to more of an extreme.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Brian

George, are you able to find an Artemis sample on Spotify/etc.? My upload sample offer still applies, but it won't be till the weekend.

DavidW

btw I recently discovered that the Talich Q is back in circulation.  A few days ago I ordered the set, to redress the wrong of having sold it several years ago.

George

Quote from: Brian on August 13, 2013, 08:06:25 PM
George, are you able to find an Artemis sample on Spotify/etc.?

Yes, it's there. I am sampling it now. They seem big and loud, but I am not sure (yet) about them being rough and tough. Gritty is another term I would use to help describe what I am looking for.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

DavidW

Brian what do you think of the Prazak Q cycle?

Brian

Quote from: DavidW on August 14, 2013, 11:40:11 AM
Brian what do you think of the Prazak Q cycle?
I want to send it a valentine card and a box of chocolates. Well, maybe not literally. But I want their Op. 127 to automatically play everywhere I go.

Parsifal

Quote from: George on August 14, 2013, 03:52:11 AM
Yes, it's there. I am sampling it now. They seem big and loud, but I am not sure (yet) about them being rough and tough. Gritty is another term I would use to help describe what I am looking for.

Rough, tough, gritty, not sure what would satisfy that requirement.

The La Salle Quartet specialized in modern music and brought a certain uncompromising attitude to the Beethoven Late Quartets.  DG's remastering of the analog recordings is as bad as it comes, unfortunately.  Endellion is also of the non-sugar-coated approach.  Not sure if it rough, tough or gritty.  I have the Artemis recordings (couldn't resist and absurdly low price) but haven't listened yet.  You might want to listen to some samples of the Cleveland Quartet on Telarc.

George

Quote from: Scarpia on August 14, 2013, 12:41:18 PM
Endellion is also of the non-sugar-coated approach. 

Indeed!

After some sampling, I decided to go with the Endellion set. With thanks to Brian!
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

North Star

I like the Endellions a lot, and I would think that you'll like it, too, George.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

George

Quote from: North Star on August 14, 2013, 01:15:44 PM
I like the Endellions a lot, and I would think that you'll like it, too, George.

I can't wait!
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Brian

#732
Quote from: Annie on August 14, 2013, 01:12:10 PM
Could someone kindly make me understand what those adjectives mean in terms of a string quartet interpretation?
I believe there's a sort of spectrum in terms of technical aptitude and excitement. See attachment.

EDIT: You may think of it like a bassoonist who plays the opening of Rite of Spring and makes it sound difficult and weird without screwing it up ("gritty") vs. a bassoonist who plays the opening of Rite like they did it 500 times in music school.

North Star

Quote from: Brian on August 14, 2013, 01:27:13 PM
I believe there's a sort of spectrum in terms of technical aptitude and excitement. See attachment.
Hmmm, but bow pressure, for example, isn't too strictly related to technical aptitude.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Parsifal

Quote from: Brian on August 14, 2013, 01:27:13 PMEDIT: You may think of it like a bassoonist who plays the opening of Rite of Spring and makes it sound difficult and weird without screwing it up ("gritty") vs. a bassoonist who plays the opening of Rite like they did it 500 times in music school.

I don't think "gritty" has anything to do with creating the impression that the play is having difficulty performing the music.  It suggest an approach that emphasizes harsh or intense aspects of the music, such as harmonic dissonances, abrupt or awkward melodies, rhythmic syncopation.  It suggests a performer that does not strive to maintain a gentle, beautiful tone throughout.

Mandryka

Gritty is the opposite of what Virgil Thompson said about Heifetz in a famous article called "Silk-Underwear Music" in the Herald Tribune in 1940

QuoteI realize that my liking or not liking what Mr. Heifetz plays and how he plays it is a matter of no import to the stellar spaces in which he moves. But it happens that I did go to the concert last night and that I did listen pretty carefully to his superb (there is no other word but the nineteenth- century one) virtuosity. It was admirable and fine and swell and OK and occasionally very, very beautiful. The fellow can fiddle. But he sacrifices everything to polish. He does it knowingly. He is justly admired and handsomely paid for it. To ask anything else of him is like asking tenderness of the ocelot.

Four-starred super-luxury hotels are a legitimate commerce. The fact remains, however, that there is about their machine- tooled finish and empty elegance something more than just a trifle vulgar
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

DavidW

Quote from: Scarpia on August 14, 2013, 01:51:50 PM
I don't think "gritty" has anything to do with creating the impression that the play is having difficulty performing the music.  It suggest an approach that emphasizes harsh or intense aspects of the music, such as harmonic dissonances, abrupt or awkward melodies, rhythmic syncopation.  It suggests a performer that does not strive to maintain a gentle, beautiful tone throughout.

This is why I have trouble associating gritty performance with Beethoven.  It's Beethoven not Carter.  There are limits to how dissonant you can make a classical era piece sound without simply departing from the score.

Parsifal

Quote from: DavidW on August 14, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
This is why I have trouble associating gritty performance with Beethoven.  It's Beethoven not Carter.  There are limits to how dissonant you can make a classical era piece sound without simply departing from the score.

I don't agree.  Beethoven, particularly the late works, contains a lot of dissonance  (although not as much or as blatant as Carter).  When a dissonant note appears you have the choice.   Play it gently, make it seem like a coloration of the consonant note,  emphasize its resolution rather than the dissonance itself, or play it with emphasis to make the dissonance stand out.  Making the latter choice emphasizes the edginess of the music without departing from the score.  One could argue that in our modern age it is appropriate to emphasize the dissonant elements because we have been desensitized to dissonance and are likely to miss it if it is presented with too much reserve.

The new erato

Pity the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band never recorded them. That should have satisfied.

Herman

Quote from: Brian on August 14, 2013, 01:27:13 PM
I believe there's a sort of spectrum in terms of technical aptitude and excitement. See attachment.

EDIT: You may think of it like a bassoonist who plays the opening of Rite of Spring and makes it sound difficult and weird without screwing it up ("gritty") vs. a bassoonist who plays the opening of Rite like they did it 500 times in music school.

Sorry, I think this graph shows how this is a red herring.

The technical level of most string quartet musicians playing the major venues is very high these days.

That does not make the LvB quartets comfortable playing. And apart from playing the notes there's also the problem of *performing* the music and presenting the *story* as one sees it  -  and we're talking about four individuals here.

In the context of the nitty gritty discussion perhaps the release of the Amadeus' fifties radio recordings on Audite are interesting.