Beethoven's String Quartets

[Mark]

Once again (and as I 'predicted' at the start of this thread), here we have another good example of there being dozens of recommendations without there necessarily being a clear 'winner'. I think that's great, BTW, as it demonstrates that we're all individuals looking for different things in our choices of recordings.

[FideLeo]

Once again (and as I 'predicted' at the start of this thread), here we have another good example of there being dozens of recommendations without there necessarily being a clear 'winner'.

A complete set from an enterprising HIP group such as the Schuppanzigh (or the Turner or the Eroica or the Mosaiques) Quartet will be a clear winner for me though.  Gut strings produce a sonority that makes the music speak to me like no other.  The Gewandhaus Qt readings are nevertheless very interesting and worthwhile as an additional set at the price.   The tenth disc includes Beethoven's own arrangement of OP. 14,1 sonata for string quartet which I have heard only in Melos Qt's complete set.

[bhodges]

I agree totally, Mark.  Further, it demonstrates that great works can withstand a wide variety of interpretations and still make their impact--something I believe very strongly.  

--Bruce

[BorisG]

Once again (and as I 'predicted' at the start of this thread), here we have another good example of there being dozens of recommendations without there necessarily being a clear 'winner'. I think that's great, BTW, as it demonstrates that we're all individuals looking for different things in our choices of recordings.

You mentioned some concern about import tax. What extra amount, for instance, would that be on a complete Takacs set?

[Mark]

You mentioned some concern about import tax. What extra amount, for instance, would that be on a complete Takacs set?

All I know is this: when I bought the DG collector's set of Gidon Kremer's performances in a selection of chamber works, it cost me about £26 (I ordered it from Newbury Comics in the US, if I'm not mistaken). When the item reached me in the UK, I had to hand over another £7+ to get it delivered from the postal service, as I hadn't factored in the import duty. I consider that a bit steep, and think that overseas sellers should advertise their wares inclusive of import taxes to the countries they ship goods. I'm not suggesting they will actually charge these amounts at the point of sale, but making customers aware would help when ordering - I probably would've shopped around in the UK (and got a better deal), had I realised that I'd have more to pay when the item turned up. Naive, maybe, but true.

[Que]

All I know is this: when I bought the DG collector's set of Gidon Kremer's performances in a selection of chamber works, it cost me about £26 (I ordered it from Newbury Comics in the US, if I'm not mistaken). When the item reached me in the UK, I had to hand over another £7+ to get it delivered from the postal service, as I hadn't factored in the import duty. I consider that a bit steep, and think that overseas sellers should advertise their wares inclusive of import taxes to the countries they ship goods. I'm not suggesting they will actually charge these amounts at the point of sale, but making customers aware would help when ordering - I probably would've shopped around in the UK (and got a better deal), had I realised that I'd have more to pay when the item turned up. Naive, maybe, but true.

Levels of import tax varies from country to country. And you can buy from any country in the EU without having to pay import tax, not just from the UK. Also note that oversees shipping at Amazon.fr is considerably cheaper than Amazon.de. You could inform at British customs what the threshold value is to import duty free. I always calculate the import tax in with bigger parcels - smaller items go below the threshold (all those single CDs from Amazon.com Market place sellers... ) - but many slip through anyway!

A complete set from an enterprising HIP group such as the Schuppanzigh (or the Turner or the Eroica or the Mosaiques) Quartet will be a clear winner for me though.  Gut strings produce a sonority that makes the music speak to me like no other.

The lack of a HIP LvB SQ cycle is frustrating and puzzles me. There are far too litlle HIP SQ's around or they are not recording enough. There is so much available in HIP, but SQ's is still quite of a problem. Haydn is covered, but LvB...

Q

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I've had an opportunity since yesterday to sample a little of the stereo Vegh set (the Op. 131, no more), and again, I felt more drawn towards the Medici - for reasons of sonics as much as performance. The Vegh Quartet seem to me to be a little too deliberate, as though they were playing while still 'thinking out' their interpretation.

If "still thinking out their interpretation" is what you're hearing via internet clips I gotta say there must be something wrong with said clips!

Because "still thinking about it" and "deliberate" are the absolute last descriptors I'd apply to the Vegh's Beethoven.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm the last person to jump to the defense of a recording just because I'm fond of it and someone else pans it but nothing could be further from the truth in your description above.

Which only drives home the perils of relying on internet clips. Too short, too crimped, and nothing even approaching an accurate timbral picture.

Unfortunately the Vegh set is no longer available separately so any prospective buyer is left with few options - one of them banking on internet 'clipping'. But IMO it's best to tread those waters lightly and try if possible to withhold critical "thumbing down" only after firsthand auditioning. It's only fair to the musicians.

(Okay, lecture over! )

[BorisG]

The lack of a HIP LvB SQ cycle is frustrating and puzzles me. There are far too litlle HIP SQ's around or they are not recording enough. There is so much available in HIP, but SQ's is still quite of a problem. Haydn is covered, but LvB...

Q

Miro Quartet, though more hip than HIP, Op. 18 might please. Listen before leaping. I have not heard their Beethoven and do not know if they plan completion.

Information:

http://www.miroquartet.com/recordings.html

http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=971

[DavidW]

They sound extraordinary Boris.   Very expressive.  Now Donwyn will be like "what did I just say about internet samples!?!"

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Now Donwyn will be like "what did I just say about internet samples!?!"

Perilous to one's health!! Dangerous!! Approach with caution!!

Honestly, I don't mind sampling per se, I sample all the time. I just feel it a disservice to the musicians to come on an internet board and pan a recording based solely on clipping.

Negatively criticizing in public deserves something a little more substantial. That's all!

On the other hand, extol away a recording's virtues!!!

[FideLeo]

Miro Quartet, though more hip than HIP, Op. 18 might please. Listen before leaping. I have not heard their Beethoven and do not know if they plan completion.

.....

Maybe you'd prefer recommending something you have heard instead?   

[Mark]

If "still thinking out their interpretation" is what you're hearing via internet clips I gotta say there must be something wrong with said clips!

Because "still thinking about it" and "deliberate" are the absolute last descriptors I'd apply to the Vegh's Beethoven.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm the last person to jump to the defense of a recording just because I'm fond of it and someone else pans it but nothing could be further from the truth in your description above.

Which only drives home the perils of relying on internet clips. Too short, too crimped, and nothing even approaching an accurate timbral picture.

Unfortunately the Vegh set is no longer available separately so any prospective buyer is left with few options - one of them banking on internet 'clipping'. But IMO it's best to tread those waters lightly and try if possible to withhold critical "thumbing down" only after firsthand auditioning. It's only fair to the musicians.

(Okay, lecture over! )

No need for the lecture - my impression had nothing to do with internet 'clips'. A member sent me the complete Op. 131.

[Novi]

All I know is this: when I bought the DG collector's set of Gidon Kremer's performances in a selection of chamber works, it cost me about £26 (I ordered it from Newbury Comics in the US, if I'm not mistaken). When the item reached me in the UK, I had to hand over another £7+ to get it delivered from the postal service, as I hadn't factored in the import duty. I consider that a bit steep, and think that overseas sellers should advertise their wares inclusive of import taxes to the countries they ship goods. I'm not suggesting they will actually charge these amounts at the point of sale, but making customers aware would help when ordering - I probably would've shopped around in the UK (and got a better deal), had I realised that I'd have more to pay when the item turned up. Naive, maybe, but true.

The tax free threshold is £18, after which you have to pay taxes plus the £7 admin charge to the post office. (I've been slugged before too )

Details here.

A complete set from an enterprising HIP group such as the Schuppanzigh (or the Turner or the Eroica or the Mosaiques) Quartet will be a clear winner for me though.  Gut strings produce a sonority that makes the music speak to me like no other. 

Even though there are no complete sets, are there any individual HIP selections that are recommendable? I like the Mosaiques's Haydn. Is their Beethoven as good?

[FideLeo]

Even though there are no complete sets, are there any individual HIP selections that are recommendable? I like the Mosaiques's Haydn. Is their Beethoven as good?

The Mosaiques have only done all six in the Op. 18 set so far but they are all very good if you prefer your Beethoven articulate but not impetuous (i.e. consistent with their Haydn and Mozart).  The Quatuor Turner (OOP but available used or as overstock) Op. 18 has it more up to speed overall.  I will urge people to hear the Schuppanzigh 18/4 and 59/3 (Ars musici) in the same vein but it appears to be oop as well.  The one disc from the Eroica Quartet (opp. 74, 95, 135) is quite good if one likes the British HIP style - the Mosaiques are Viennese and the Turner Franco-Flemish the Schuppanzigh German respectively in that regard )

[Haffner]

I am struggling here, but if only ONE, get the Vegh.

[Mark]

The tax free threshold is £18, after which you have to pay taxes plus the £7 admin charge to the post office. (I've been slugged before too )

Details here.

Thanks.

[longears]

Once again (and as I 'predicted' at the start of this thread), here we have another good example of there being dozens of recommendations without there necessarily being a clear 'winner'. I think that's great, BTW, as it demonstrates that we're all individuals looking for different things in our choices of recordings.

And demonstrates a wealth of great musicianship on record from which to choose.  Give a hungry man some fish and chips and it's the greatest meal on earth; give beluga caviar to a sybaritic gourmet and he complains that it's not paté.

[karlhenning]

Apples and oranges;  sometimes you're in the mood for caviar . . . other times, for pâté.

(So now, instead of chiding people for trying to compare apples with oranges, we'll say caviar & pâté . . . .)

[Dancing Divertimentian]

No need for the lecture - my impression had nothing to do with internet 'clips'. A member sent me the complete Op. 131.

Ah, serves me right for assuming!

Well, hope the 'Vegh experience' one day clicks for you.

[Mark]

Ah, serves me right for assuming!

Well, hope the 'Vegh experience' one day clicks for you.

Be nice to think it will, but I'm not gonna sweat it.