Author Topic: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)  (Read 21398 times)

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Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2007, 02:13:55 AM »
Luke - you are right - the trills are not from the same place in the score as the other section I just posted about. I am using the two piano score, along with the orchestral score in order to make this transcription of 4 sections from part 1 (cello, piano reduction).

It's a crazy idea I know, but I think it's working so far, and Stravinsky never got round to composing anything for Rostropovich, so I thought I'd take the initiative! Obviously alot of the sections woudn't work with only two instruments so I'm transcribing, so I've chosen just a few: Introduction (part 1), The Augurs of Spring/Dances of the Young Girls, Spring Rounds, Dance of the Earth. Needless to say the piano (paino?!) part will be rather difficult, as will the cello part playing all those fairly high lying woodwind solos (some of which come off beautifully actually), but I don't think anything is impossible so far, and it's surprising how much f an orchestral effect can be achieved from just these two instruments. I think it works quite well because Stravinsky composed at the piano so the scores translate quite well back to the piano form. I always thought the four piano version didn't quite work because the beautiful flowng melodies couldn't be played that convincingly on piano.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

lukeottevanger

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2007, 02:16:33 AM »
I thought that might be what you were doing!

How's about this - compose it out as you see fit, then send me a Sibelius file (you are using Sibelius, I assume) and I will make a version with suggestions as to how to make any unpianistic bits come off better.

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2007, 02:24:04 AM »
Thankyou very much! I will take you up on your offer!
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Is this possible on the piano
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2007, 02:54:06 AM »
Surely it asks you to cross 1 under 2, which feels fine if a little unusal. My initial idea was to take the C and D with the thumb and the E and F with 2 and 3; this would be very straightforward (there's a trem just like it in one of my clavichord pieces). Aquarius' idea is similar, because it too involves playing two notes with the thumb; it is a little bit tricker and more unusual than my version, but far from impossible, and IMO it's better because it means that the trem will be played exactly as written.

Ha! I hadn't considered crossing 1 under 2. Guido can write "sopra" or "sotto" along with his fingering to help the pianist.

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2007, 02:55:29 AM »
Thankyou very much! I will take you up on your offer!

I would be happy to do the same if you want a second opinion.

lukeottevanger

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2007, 03:07:02 AM »
I would be happy to do the same if you want a second opinion.

That is probably a very good idea!

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2007, 03:21:29 AM »
Thankyou very much Larry. I will do that as soon as I finish. Do you both have sibelius? Or should I send you PDFs?
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

lukeottevanger

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2007, 03:23:57 AM »
Definitely Sibelius for me - then I can edit it (and save it under another name, of course)

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2007, 03:29:19 AM »
OK. You could change the colour of the noteheads of the bits you've edited.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2007, 04:06:42 AM »
Thankyou very much Larry. I will do that as soon as I finish. Do you both have sibelius? Or should I send you PDFs?

I have Sibelius 4 but don't know it as well as Finale (which I also have). PDFs are probably easier for me, but I certainly could open your Sibelius file.

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2007, 08:53:31 AM »
Another question - how do you beam notes so that they go across two different staffs? (Sibelius). I've tried the help to no avail.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

lukeottevanger

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2007, 09:31:45 AM »
Select what you notes want to cross, then Notes > Cross-staff notes etc. I only have Sib 3, and this particular function isn't quite as slick with things like accidentals as I may be on Sib 4 (I don't know). But you can work your way around most problems.

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2007, 10:27:25 AM »
Piano part shaping up to be (possibly) prohibitively difficult!
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

karlhenning

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2007, 10:28:49 AM »
Well, as you probably know, Guido, Stravinsky's own rehearsal reduction was for four-hands.

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2007, 01:26:14 PM »
Piano part shaping up to be (possibly) prohibitively difficult!

Inevitably! and you will have to leave out and compromise all over the place. (My favorite example from a standard vocal score: the ending to the first scene in Falstaff, where everything is retained except the main melody.)

As for example 4, my solution would be simply to take the 16th notes in the right hand up an octave.

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2007, 02:50:54 PM »
This is why it is extremely problematic for a composer to not play piano. ;)

That is painfully obvious to me - hence my copious nefarious arrangements rather than composing anything original myself. I suppose atonal music is my friend! One day I will be a composer!
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2007, 05:22:24 PM »
OK The first three sections are done (also the largest three sections).

The climax of Spring Rounds is so chromatic that I'm wondering whether to just have it in C rather than 5 flats - seems a bit pointless. Also I'll need help on the most easy to read voicings of the chords. Stravinsky doesn't seem to be at all bothered with enharmonic equivalents in this score, so I don't feel too bad about changing stuff like that.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Larry Rinkel

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2007, 05:35:20 PM »
OK The first three sections are done (also the largest three sections).

The climax of Spring Rounds is so chromatic that I'm wondering whether to just have it in C rather than 5 flats - seems a bit pointless. Also I'll need help on the most easy to read voicings of the chords. Stravinsky doesn't seem to be at all bothered with enharmonic equivalents in this score, so I don't feel too bad about changing stuff like that.

I would make it as easy for the pianist to read as possible.

johnQpublic

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2007, 02:57:31 AM »
Select what you notes want to cross, then Notes > Cross-staff notes etc. I only have Sib 3, and this particular function isn't quite as slick with things like accidentals* as I may be on Sib 4 (I don't know). But you can work your way around most problems.

Amen! I haven't loaded my Sibelius upgrade, hopefully it's better.

*be prepared to "hide" many accidentals.

Offline Guido

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Re: Is this possible on the piano? updated (once)
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2007, 04:34:02 AM »
OK, I'm almost finished (apart from dynamics). Just one quick question before I submit it for review - I'm guessing fast parallel fifths (triplets near the end of the dance of the earth), are out?
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away