Where to start with Mozart

[Sergeant Rock]

Bilson has the dubious distinction of having one of the worst pf/orchestra balances I've ever heard - if the pf were any more diminutive it'd be little more than a speck.

It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd hear in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd here in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.

Sarge

Thank you, Sarge. So do I. I have all the usual suspects in the PI world, this one reigns supreme for me.

[71 dB]

Oh dear, $4, down from $40, year-on-year sales down 25%, and they've bet the farm on Windows Phone. 

Well I bought my stocks a year ago when they were $2.60. Nokia has surely had hard time but they are coming back.

Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020: 41 megapixel camera and Rich Recording able to record sound pressure levels up to 140 dB!

Try that on a "so 2007" iPhone! People will realise who is innovative these days.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well I bought my stocks a year ago when they were $2.60. Nokia has surely had hard time but they are coming back.

Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020: 41 megapixel camera and Rich Recording able to record sound pressure levels up to 140 dB!

Try that on a "so 2007" iPhone! People will realise who is innovative these days.

I love my Lumia 920, it does everything I want and way more too. It's a nice piece f technology and I hope that Mozart is enjoying his (to be OT).

[71 dB]

I love my Lumia 920, it does everything I want and way more too. It's a nice piece f technology...

Way to go!  Have you tried Dolby Phone with headphones? Yellow or another color?

[Parsifal]

Well I bought my stocks a year ago when they were $2.60. Nokia has surely had hard time but they are coming back.

Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020: 41 megapixel camera and Rich Recording able to record sound pressure levels up to 140 dB!

Try that on a "so 2007" iPhone! People will realise who is innovative these days.

SPL 140 dB?  So you can record the last thing you heard before you went deaf?

Better cash out Nokia while there is still time and buy stock in Huawei.

[71 dB]

SPL 140 dB?  So you can record the last thing you heard before you went deaf?

In a concert bass sound can get pretty loud to be felt. Human ear can take more bass than higher frequencies. The point is if your ears can take it a Nokia with Rich Recording can record it distortion free. Just listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZjC_OZ-w4

[prémont]

Obviously you don't think yourself as a musician, yet you are eager to criticize the playing of some musicians (Brautigam). Sure, some players may not be your cup of tea, but why generalise your ideas to concern all people? What if someone played these sonatas differently and have other kind of ideas of the music? How did Mozart himself play these sonatas? Precisely according to your ideas? 

I do not know how Mozart played these works, and actually I do not care about it.

I have to admit I don't have Brautigam's Mozart, only Haydn and Beethoven. I have never found him heavy-handed on those. But that's just my idea of heavy-handed playing so I allow others disagree. 

Brautigams Beethoven (I have the complete set except the two CDs with variations) is IMO something else, Beethovens weighty style suits him better, and he seems more inspired.. What I do not like is his Mozart.
I do not know his Haydn.

[prémont]

Well, but if your idea of Mozart's music were wider, so that it included the idea that the music could be uninspired and leaden . . . . ; )

[prémont]

As you know, I totally agree with this. On the contrary, I love his interpretations of Haydn's solo keyboard music. Playing Haydn, he is totally at home.

BTW, my favorite cycles of the piano sonatas are:

1. Paul Badura-Skoda
2. Bart Van Oort, Malcolm Bilson & Alexei Lubimov.
3. Mitsuko Uchida
4. Maria João Pires (1st recording)

I guess Kristian Bezuidenhout will be placed very high (along with Badura-Skoda or slightly below him), when he finishes his traversal on HM. 

Almost exactly my preferences, except that I do not know Uchida´s set. Generally I am reluctant to acquire modern piano versions, but on modern piano I prefer Endres, Pires I and Zacharias.

[prémont]

I have Klára Würtz and some sonatas also played by Jenö Jandó. My ideas of the music is wide enough to enjoy them both! I don't need Badura-Lada or Bart van Simpson or even Uchida. I'm over this performance snobbery.

I think it is because the Badura-Skoda cycle it OOP and very expensive. This means that those who have the box can make those who have not feel inferior. I feel inferior because I have Klára Würtz. That's the problem. I should be happy I own one complete Mozart piano sonatas cycle but this board makes it hard.

I never thought of it in that way. I also acquired Badura-Skoda´s set while it was cheap. And I really do like it.

[Parsifal]

In a concert bass sound can get pretty loud to be felt. Human ear can take more bass than higher frequencies. The point is if your ears can take it a Nokia with Rich Recording can record it distortion free. Just listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZjC_OZ-w4

We're getting far off the topic of Mozart here, but I find it bizarre that this would be a criteria for choosing a phone.  I'm just at the point of trading in my dumb cell-phone for a smartphone and the criteria is whether it works as a phone and whether it works as a tiny web-browser, especially for maps.  Being able to snap a picture would also be nice.  Based on my experience with an iPad and Mac, I think I'm going for an iPhone.  Android is the other alternative.  The choice, as I see it, is Safari vs Chrome.  I can't imagine ever getting a Windows phone.

OTOH, I just collected all of the Uchida Mozart Sonata discs.  I took the trouble of finding used copies of all of the original releases because the boxed set excludes some of the fillers, which in some cases are more interesting than the Sonatas themselves (Adagio in b-minor, little gigue).

[Dancing Divertimentian]

It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd hear in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.

Sarge

Well, as "realistic" as we can get 200 years on! Which certainly leaves the door wide open to scholarly interpretation.

Personally I don't enjoy "Jumbo" the piano either. Never have. I take much delight in the "integrated" approach to Mozart's PCs, which is the calling cards for both Schiff and Goode. Hence my affection for them. But the key word here is integrated. Bilson hides too much behind the orchestra at too many key points along the way...for my taste, of course.

Besides, I have a hard time believing an aspiring virtuoso like Mozart would want his instrument to "struggle" against an orchestra almost to the point of anonymity. Ultimately the pianist is center stage.

[jochanaan]

It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd hear in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.

Sarge

I heard Bilson live in Boulder once.  I would have loved his playing, but unfortunately he was playing his fortepiano against a modern-instrument orchestra, and even though they played pretty softly, he had to pound to be heard at all!  It sounded pretty raw.

[71 dB]

[OT]

We're getting far off the topic of Mozart here, but I find it bizarre that this would be a criteria for choosing a phone.

Nobody said this is a criteria for choosing a phone (but for some it is). It's just that if record something with your phone, the sound quality is probably pristine if the phone happens to be is a Nokia Lumia with Rich Recording. It's a plus if not a criteria for choosing.

I'm just at the point of trading in my dumb cell-phone for a smartphone and the criteria is whether it works as a phone...

I think every smartphone works as a phone. Why wouldn't they?

...and whether it works as a tiny web-browser, especially for maps.

Nokia happens to be pretty good with maps: http://here.com/

Being able to snap a picture would also be nice.

Know what? The first cellphone camera ever was in a Nokia phone. During the last few years Nokia has been pushing the boundaries of mobile imaging like no one else. Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020! Compared to that monster the camera of an iPhone looks pretty primitive...

Based on my experience with an iPad and Mac, I think I'm going for an iPhone.  Android is the other alternative.  The choice, as I see it, is Safari vs Chrome.  I can't imagine ever getting a Windows phone.

Hopefully you are happy with what you end up choosing. 

[/OT]

[Roberto]

Anda's was my first set so has sentimental advantage, but I still enjoy it quite a bit.  I can't agree with you about the balance between the keyboard and the orchestra concerning Bilson and Gardiner, I think they are perfectly balanced.  However, I never listen over headphones, and this might explain our different impressions.

Balance between piano and orchestra on Bildon recordings is good for me also.

[The new erato]

Know what? The first cellphone camera ever was in a Nokia phone. During the last few years Nokia has been pushing the boundaries of mobile imaging like no one else. Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020! Compared to that monster the camera of an iPhone looks pretty primitive...

I'll keep that in mind when I need a camera with a phone capability.

[Roberto]

Mozart's best of the best w/ recordings:

Operas (Fricsay)

Fricsay is good Mozart conductor (even if he used modern instruments) but the balance between the orchestra and the singers is very wrong. I have the Magic Flute and I can't listen to it because the volume of the singers is too loud to the orchestra. I don't have other Fricsay Mozart opera recording but I've read about this problem regarding the other recordings also.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Fricsay is good Mozart conductor (even if he used modern instruments) but the balance between the orchestra and the singers is very wrong. I have the Magic Flute and I can't listen to it because the volume of the singers is too loud to the orchestra. I don't have other Fricsay Mozart opera recording but I've read about this problem regarding the other recordings also.

You are absolutely correct about the voice/orchestra balance on the Magic Flute. It's skewed too much in favor of the voices (though I believe the recording does have its followers). The orchestra really suffers under the weight, IMO. I've actually written about this problem before on this board and because of this I've never felt compelled to buy the recording.

However, the information you've read (from whatever sources) about the balances on at least three of the other opera recordings is inaccurate. I've long owned Figaro, Giovanni, and Entfürung, and the balances couldn't be more appropriate. I recommend you listen to these recordings first-hand before passing judgement.

I haven't heard the grainy Idomeneo, which was recorded live, so there may very well be a problem with that one.

[Roberto]

However, the information you've read (from whatever sources) about the balances on at least three of the other opera recordings is inaccurate. I've long owned Figaro, Giovanni, and Entfürung, and the balances couldn't be more appropriate. I recommend you listen to these recordings first-hand before passing judgement.

Thank you for the suggestion! Actually I was wrong because I've read about this problem years ago on Amazon reviews. Now I find these only in the Mass in c minor (Larry VanDeSande wrote: "Another 1960s technique is apparent whenever the soloists enter: they are so closely miked tney sound larger than life and dwarf the orchestra. When the quartet enters, you hardly know there is an orchestra at all. This creates an unnatural sound picture, like the soloists are standing next to you and the orchestra is somewhere down the street.") He wrote it is a 1960s technique and I thought it is true for the other operas also.
And the Don Giovanni. (Santa Fe Listener: "But if you do buy this set, know that the remastered sonics are birght and the voices very close.")