Alternative news sources

[Karl Henning]

This might help you understand as well:

Good luck leading that horse to water.

[MishaK]

Good luck leading that horse to water.

Note word usage: ***might***

[Karl Henning]

Yes, an expertly deployed modal!

[Sean]

MishaK

The average person is pretty damn stupid I agree but I'm not sure if they'd fall for the WTC being stuffed with explosives by disguised Muslims, past all the security. Hence hatch a plan involving planes, add to the psychological impact and blame the collapse on them. All very simple...

Something went wrong with the Black Hawk guidance system for 93. The guidance for the second plane to hit the towers, 11 or 175 whichever, also showed problems- it nearly missed and only hit the corner with all the fuel exploding outside the building. No core column damage and an even more pitiful fire- time to bring the demolition sequence forward and get the damn things down.

Mangled black boxes? Made from some of the toughest materials known to science?

A paper passport from a hijacker survived though, jumping out of his jacket pocket, past the wreckage, through the fireball and landing gently on a nearby sidewalk for a policeman who happened to be there to pick it up. Proving nothing anyway except that the guy forgot that you don't need a passport on an internal fight.

I can't access Youtube right now...

Karl, no leading and no drinking. At least it isn't water that MishaK leads me to drink.

[MishaK]

The average person is pretty damn stupid I agree but I'm not sure if they'd fall for the WTC being stuffed with explosives by disguised Muslims, past all the security. Hence hatch a plan involving planes, add to the psychological impact and blame the collapse on them. All very simple...

Except that this worked just fine for the 1993 attack. So why shouldn't it have worked in 2001? Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. Using planes if you're going to do controlled demolitions anyway only increases complexity and risk of failure.

Something went wrong with the Black Hawk guidance system for 93.

WTF are you talking about? What is Black Hawk. The only Black Hawks I know are a helicopter, an NHL hockey team and a bird of prey.

Mangled black boxes? Made from some of the toughest materials known to science?

Last I checked, black boxes are not made of diamonds, which would be the toughest material known. Black boxes have repeatedly been damaged so much as to be useless. Scroll down a bit on this page:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_Black_Boxes

All you are exhibiting is the disbelief of someone with no technical or scientific understanding of the subject matter and a lack of abilty or interest in empirically acquiring the necessary knowledge.

A paper passport from a hijacker survived though, jumping out of his jacket pocket, past the wreckage, through the fireball and landing gently on a nearby sidewalk for a policeman who happened to be there to pick it up. Proving nothing anyway except that the guy forgot that you don't need a passport on an internal fight.

Debris gets ejected from explosions without completely burning up. This is not unusual at all. Something with as little weight and as much air resistance as a passport would indeed land as gently from 70 stories up as it would when you dropped it off your desk. It won't pick up much more speed in the interim due to its air resistance. I know these basics of Newtonian physics are rather difficult for you to grasp. That's really the crux of the matter here.

I can't access Youtube right now...

How terribly convenient. You really should when you get a chance, as that video provides what you and the other conspiracy nuts don't: an affirmative theory of the events of the final moments of AA 77 which explains *all* of the available evidence coherently.

[Sean]

When a guy buys that passport story I know there's nothing I can do for him.

MishaK at work



And home

[MishaK]

I take it you belatedly realized that you have no tenable arguments, so now it's time for the ad hominems?

PS: it wasn't Atta's passport and it's not that strange at all:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Personal_Effects_and_the_Crash-Proof_Passport

[The new erato]

When a guy buys that passport story I know there's nothing I can do for him.

That passport story is perfecty reasonable, whereas your attempts at explanations are pretty vapid, not to put too fine a point on it. And your last post seems to be some sort of grasping at straws.

We all realized you ran out of reasonable and believable arguments a long time ago; this last post seem to prove that that fact is dawning on you as well.

[Parsifal]

That passport story is perfecty reasonable, whereas your attempts at explanations are pretty vapid, not to put too fine a point on it. And your last post seems to be some sort of grasping at straws.

Following up, I lived in the general area and made a brief pilgrimage to lower manhattan in the week following the 9/11 attack.  The streets around the site were littered with pieces of paper, printed pages from financial statements and other routine business documents that were in file cabinets of sitting on desks at the moment the planes hit.  An explosion can create a shockwave that blows material away from the source of the explosion before it has time to be burned.  You might say it is unlikely that any given passport on the plane would be found, but there is nothing physically impossible about it.

[Sean]

[MishaK]

Following up, I lived in the general area and made a brief pilgrimage to lower manhattan in the week following the 9/11 attack.  The streets around the site were littered with pieces of paper, printed pages from financial statements and other routine business documents that were in file cabinets of sitting on desks at the moment the planes hit.  An explosion can create a shockwave that blows material away from the source of the explosion before it has time to be burned.  You might say it is unlikely that any given passport on the plane would be found, but there is nothing physically impossible about it.

The hot air from the fires blew documents all the way over to Brooklyn where it rained financial statements from the sky.

[Parsifal]

It is perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of media reports and to wonder whether the account given of the 9/11 attacks is accurate in all of its details.  However one must be equally skeptical of the alternate theories.  What you have done here is deny obvious facts based on arguments which are logically inconsistent, violate physical laws or just plain make no sense and you have accepted an alternate theory which is illogical, wildly improbably, physical impossible, and based on factual assertions that are just plain wrong.  I can't say I've ever come across a more gullible person.

[Sean]

Scarpia, it's interesting that one event can be explained reasonably well by two radically different theories; historians of science have also made this point...

Your idea that the 9/11 Truth movement ideas are illogical and improbable and so on is just incorrect. Even if they are indeed wrong they're offering an entirely scientific and plausible explanation- you sound like the typical kind of sceptic wanting to dismiss it out of fear...

That may well not be your motive at all but the conspiracy theory, which is a bad name for the alternative view since the official theory is also a conspiracy theory about an unproven shadowy group of perpetrators, is not in the least wild in the way that say the Apollo moon landings hoax theory is. That theory has a few interesting points to make but the rest is undermined by hard science. With 9/11 you have dozens of hard scientists saying the official theory is wrong. It's worth anyone's consideration.

[MishaK]

Scarpia, it's interesting that one event can be explained reasonably well by two radically different theories;

No. It can't. You haven't provided an affirmative theoy of the crime. Please do. Than we can talk about the potential equivalence of the theories. As long as you have failed to provide an affirmative theory, you don't have a theory or an explanation. All you have is a hodgepodge of incredulous questions and doubts about this or that piece of evidence. None of that amounts to anything and much of it is inconsistent and contradictory. Please provide an affirmative theory of the crime.

[Karl Henning]

And a lot of it is just the flawed logic of kneejerk suppositions like How is it possible that a passport survived?!

[The new erato]

Of all the zillions of paper blown skyward, something interesting was bound to be found. When you search among a nearly unlimited number of objects, all with a very small possibility of being exactly there , sooner or later you are going to find an interesting object that you wouldn't believe possible should haven been found where it was found. If not a passport, then something else. That's more or less certain, and one of the fallacies behind much false reasoning.

[Sean]

You wackos and loonies, tell me just what on the moronic smiling-sport-celebrity-rancid nightly news would you question?

In some countries dictators have to pull people's fingernails out to get them to go along with what they say but in the West, no problem at at!! Television for the horde is the primary carrier of the garbage culture they're born into so it comes first.

We all know I'm wasting my time, and the 9/11 perpetrators rely on and chuckle over your limp psychosis.

[Sean]

http://tarpley.net/

Excellent intelligent analyses, not for you.

[MishaK]

You wackos and loonies, tell me just what on the moronic smiling-sport-celebrity-rancid nightly news would you question?

In some countries dictators have to pull people's fingernails out to get them to go along with what they say but in the West, no problem at at!! Television for the horde is the primary carrier of the garbage culture they're born into so it comes first.

We all know I'm wasting my time, and the 9/11 perpetrators rely on and chuckle over your limp psychosis.

I question everything. And I don't watch TV at all since I don't have one. I don't follow celebrities at all either. You can't address the crucial issue here, so you're lashing out at "garbage culture", whatever that is, as if we were somehow connected to it simply by virtue of disagreeing with you. It's you who is lacking basic critical thinking abilities. It is you who is emotionally so attached to the idea of being an "independent thinker", a dissident even, who must by nature disagree with the "official version", whatever you make that out to be. But you still fail the basic test: you claim that your theory explains the event at least as well, if not better, than the official version. Yet you offer no affirmative theory. Only incredulity of the "official theory." What the F#&@ is Your Theory? Who did what and how in what order? Who is it who is supposedly chuckling over our "limp psychosis"? If you cannot fill the words you fling at us with meaningful content, then you're as empty as the television culture you deride.

[snyprrr]

I question everything. And I don't watch TV at all since I don't have one. I don't follow celebrities at all either. You can't address the crucial issue here, so you're lashing out at "garbage culture", whatever that is, as if we were somehow connected to it simply by virtue of disagreeing with you. It's you who is lacking basic critical thinking abilities. It is you who is emotionally so attached to the idea of being an "independent thinker", a dissident even, who must by nature disagree with the "official version", whatever you make that out to be. But you still fail the basic test: you claim that your theory explains the event at least as well, if not better, than the official version. Yet you offer no affirmative theory. Only incredulity of the "official theory." What the F#&@ is Your Theory? Who did what and how in what order? Who is it who is supposedly chuckling over our "limp psychosis"? If you cannot fill the words you fling at us with meaningful content, then you're as empty as the television culture you deride.

1SR@3L... shhhhh