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[MishaK]

Well I'm a bit jaded with 9/11 actually and if you want to chalk up this thread as one to MishaK & Karl then you're welcome... Best, Sean

OK, so you're saying you don't have a theory of the crime at all? You just believe the bits and pieces that the truthers throw out there which don't at all add up to a coherent whole? And this makes you a free "thinker"?

Really, given all the assassinations of US citizens the government's ordered in the past seventy years (JFK, RFK, MLK, etc) and gotten away with, you'd think it would be obvious.

Sh!t!! All of us people with last names starting in K are screwed! I never saw the connection!

[Karl Henning]

Good thing I didn't change mine from Henningk.

[MishaK]

Good thing I didn't change mine from Henningk.

Of course I meant "starting" not ending. 

[Parsifal]

Of course I meant "starting" not ending. 

The conspiracy goes all the way back to The Castle.

[MishaK]

The conspiracy goes all the way back to The Castle.

Oh, shoot! You're right. And the Trial! K must have been framed.

[Sean]

MishaK, there are all the detailed linear timelines you're looking for on the net...

dyn, with a bit of editing that'll do fine.

[Sean]

I just watched this Avatar film from 2009.

One of the most successful of all time with this plot of simple but sophisticated locals who finally defeat aggressive American forces trying to take some daft expensive material called unobtainium.

Despite lines from the Americans like we will destroy the hostiles and we'll fight terror with terror, blatantly obvious references to the recent US-Western sicko subhuman bombings and invasions and horror that have brought yet more tens of thousands and millions of deaths in resource wars to prop up twisted Western living 'standards', the whole stupid film has to be couched in terms of the Friday-night-undead-idiot-masquerading-as-a-person such that its critique is lost to the exact system it's trying or thinks it's trying to oppose.

That was 2009 and you still think it's me who's crazy...

[MishaK]

MishaK, there are all the detailed linear timelines you're looking for on the net...

I've only seen incoherent poking of holes into this or that piece of evidence, not a coherent timeline anywhere. If you know of one, please provide the link, though I would much rather hear your own theory.

[snyprrr]

with a straight face if you haven't actually first read the article I linked above: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1001-24.htm

Not one mention of Building 7 collapsing even though no plane hit it. No mention of the 19 being escorted around security.

MT can blow me!! Yes, he IS a Gatekeeper. Look at what he DOESN'T write about,... perhaps??

WHY DID BUILDING 7 COLLAPSE mischa? with a straight face...


I believe that 'they' have hit on a boogieman in the muslim,... ewww, dirty, beards, yucky, nasty looking arabs with foreskins,...ewwwwwwwww!!!!!,... so much easier to believe they do stuff rather than clean cut mossad agents. Every muslim terrorist IS a mossad agent by proxy.

Hey, you dual citizenship congessmen from israel,... GO HOME!!!!




btw- Stormfront??, the supposed white suprem=ists???,... guess WHAT?,... they're based in WEST PALM BEACH, haha,... that's like saying they're based in Tel Aviv. FAIL!!!!!!


oh, I knew I shouldn't have looked into this Thread today!!! no ofence intended


watch 'Century of the Self' on YT. 4 hours concerning Ed. Bernays, Freud's nephew, who created the discipline of Public Relations. Yes, amazing that a dirty arab wasn't involved with that.

dirty dirty boogiemen,...ewwww how can one stand next to one... ewwwww


genuflect towards Tel Aviv traitors. The US wasn't supposed to be a suburb of Tel Aviv. See if YOUR congessman has a dual-citizenship with the Master Country. Surely mine have honoraries if not fully blown.



And, just to bring the point around... MUSLIMS OWN ALL MEDIA!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!! IT'S REALLY MUSLIMS, NOT TALMUDISTS, WHO RUN THE BANKS!!! YOU'VE ALL BEEN DUPED!! THE TALMUDISTS STOLE THE IDEA OF FRACTIONALIZED RESERVE BANKING FROM THE MUSLIMS!!!!!

DON'T LET SHARIA REPLACE THE NOAHIDE LAWS!!! OMG!!!!

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


Who's last in the firing squad?









There, I feel so much better now. Thanks for bringing hope and light to my Monday morning.


MORE LIGHT!!!!

[MishaK]

Forgot your medication, snypss?

WHY DID BUILDING 7 COLLAPSE mischa? with a straight face...

You know, buildings do regularly collapse from fire damage, even multi-story steel ones:

http://www.haifire.com/resources/presentations/Historical_Collapse_Survey.pdf

Having diesel tanks in the basement for fuel and all fire fighting resources diverted for hours to deal with bigger issues helps too.

http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm

[Karl Henning]

WHY DID BUILDING 7 COLLAPSE mischa? with a straight face...

You're asking us to reply to a post of your'n, with a straight face?

I like your style, little fella!

[kishnevi]

Forgot your medication, snypss?

You know, buildings do regularly collapse from fire damage, even multi-story steel ones:

http://www.haifire.com/resources/presentations/Historical_Collapse_Survey.pdf

Having diesel tanks in the basement for fuel and all fire fighting resources diverted for hours to deal with bigger issues helps too.

http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm

Misha, how dare you bring up the facts in such an important matter as this!

[MishaK]

Misha, how dare you bring up the facts in such an important matter as this!

I know, I'm such a pooper. I should just supply snypps and Sean with more drugs and join the party.

[Sean]

Well the argument often put forward by the experts is that no steel frame building has ever collapsed due to fire, except the three in NYC, all on the same day and all for different concocted technical reasons- some coincidence... The article you link seems to be drawing in other types of building, but I haven't read it very closely.

Dragging me into this again... Have you seen Explosive evidence, experts speak out??

The problem for the official story isn't so much precedent though as why indeed should any steel frame collapse- the heat just dissipates away and the internal structure remains; the Madrid tower fire about eight years ago was an example of a skyscraper being obliterated by fire yet the steel remained- why shouldn't it?

MishaK, after an hour or so following the airliner impacts the WTC towers collapsed. What exactly happened at that moment? There were 47 massive steel core columns in each building, along with 280 or something perimeter columns. At the moment of collapse all 47 suddenly failed at around the point of the impacts. What on earth caused this, and furthermore why did the acceleration then continue down?

Let's say the 47 columns each instantaneously buckled at a single point, for some weird reason. The building would slide to the side with the columns still intact as usual all the way to the top, and all the way to the bottom. But no, the columns were either shattered all the way up and down or the floors were forcefully separated from them- why? It's been demonstrated many times by scholars that the pancaking theory doesn't work and any downward movement of upper material should be absorbed and stopped again.

Actually there's one interesting video where for a moment you can see the core columns hundreds of metres in the air on one of the towers before they collapse down, for some reason; however with the other tower the first thing it does at the moment of collapse is for the antenna to fall, indicating the core failed first. Either way they're no gravity induced collapses.

[Parsifal]

After the attacks in 9/11  I was in the machine shop of our facility where the chief machinist had the radio on, tuned to one of the national news networks.  When the news was announced that the first tower collapsed, the grizzled old machinist held forth.  "I tell ya what it was, it was all that steel.  When you get steel hot it looses its strength.  It doesn't melt, it just looses its strength.  It must have been the heat from all that jet fuel burning."  It turned out he was right.

[Karl Henning]

Count on Sean to be deaf to that artisanal opinion.

[Sean]

If you put a cigarette lighter to the end of a spoon you have to drop the spoon instantly- heat is just conducted away.

You're saying the entire steel framework throughout the buildings was softened by a few dozen gallons of jet fuel?

The fact is that most people will accept any garbage rationalization to prop up their worldview.

[Sean]

This is a trailer for one of the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth- if you've got Youtube you'll be able to access the whole thing. There are numerous other important films.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/fuLDhKKv794/

[MishaK]

After the attacks in 9/11  I was in the machine shop of our facility where the chief machinist had the radio on, tuned to one of the national news networks.  When the news was announced that the first tower collapsed, the grizzled old machinist held forth.  "I tell ya what it was, it was all that steel.  When you get steel hot it looses its strength.  It doesn't melt, it just looses its strength.  It must have been the heat from all that jet fuel burning."  It turned out he was right.

Yep.

but I haven't read it very closely.

That's your general MO and the problem with all of your "analyses". It's kinda pointless to answer when you continue to not read the answers closely. I suppose you do that more or less consciously, so you won't have to change your opinion to which you're so dearly attached. All the answers to your questions can be found at the site I linked via the menus on the left: http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

The problem for the official story isn't so much precedent though as why indeed should any steel frame collapse- the heat just dissipates away and the internal structure remains; the Madrid tower fire about eight years ago was an example of a skyscraper being obliterated by fire yet the steel remained- why shouldn't it?

MishaK, after an hour or so following the airliner impacts the WTC towers collapsed. What exactly happened at that moment? There were 47 massive steel core columns in each building, along with 280 or something perimeter columns. At the moment of collapse all 47 suddenly failed at around the point of the impacts. What on earth caused this, and furthermore why did the acceleration then continue down?

You simply don't understand structural damage. Nor do you understand that this was intentionally a lightweight structure in order to create open floor plans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOKJ4ZXgK4Q

I knew that building inside out. I knew how fragile that structure was. When I stepped outside of my apartment complex that morning and looked at the south tower and saw the damage to the facade (with the likelihood of substantial damage to the center core, given the evident force of the impact), my first thought was: that building is coming down sooner or later, I want to be at least as far away from it as it is tall. That was my first thought. I had no doubts that this building would come down from structural damage alone. Not for a second. I wasn't surprised at all when the south tower came down.

Let's say the 47 columns each instantaneously buckled at a single point, for some weird reason. The building would slide to the side with the columns still intact as usual all the way to the top, and all the way to the bottom. But no, the columns were either shattered all the way up and down or the floors were forcefully separated from them- why?

If you don't read anything, at least look at the photo on the homepage of the debunking site I linked above. It's a photo from the beginning of the south tower collapse. Note that it caves toward the point of impact. It doesn't fall down straight, as it might have in a controlled demolition, but collapses towards the point of most structural damage, completely consistent with collapse from structural damage.

It's been demonstrated many times by scholars that the pancaking theory doesn't work and any downward movement of upper material should be absorbed and stopped again.

No it hasn't. Not by any scholars of structural engineering. Not sure what "scholars" you refer to.

however with the other tower the first thing it does at the moment of collapse is for the antenna to fall

You need new glasses. The entire top of the building above the point of impact collapses towards the side where the impact damage was. (The antenna indeed ended up in the graveyard of Trinity Church a few blocks away - so much for "controlled" demolition.)

Either way they're no gravity induced collapses.

That sounds like science as understood by someone who doesn't understand science. What the heck is a "gravity induced collapse"? Aren't necessarily all collapses due to gravity, other than implosions in outer space? Are you saying the building was propelled downward by upward facing rockets?

Look, all of this arguing over individual bits of evidence and how unconvincing they might be to someone with mediocre middle school physics grades and who hasn't taken physics since is pointless unless you have an affirmative theory of the crime. Let's say you're right. Let's say arguendo that these were controlled demolitions. Why fly planes into the tower? Who organized this? How? With whose help? What for? How did they keep it secret in this day and age when far more trivial shenanigans of far lesser complexity with fewer moving parts and fewer co-conspirators end up being revealed on a regular basis? How did they do it so flawlessly? What's your theory?

If you put a cigarette lighter to the end of a spoon you have to drop the spoon instantly- heat is just conducted away.

Really? Anticipation of a herion high must make junkies immune to this physical "fact"?

[Sean]

One short reply for now, in the early hours here-

Well MishaK, if you knew the tower was going to collapse you were in a small minority of people, most of whom are extremely suspicious characters, including Mayor Giuliani and leaseholder Silverstein.

More to the point, the fire department's 300 men not to mention 3000 others inside, never thought for a moment that a fire way up on a few floors would demolish the whole building.

You didn't think to make any calls to warn anyone with you great insight I suppose...