Camille Saint-Saëns

Started by BachQ, April 12, 2007, 05:11:55 AM

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ChamberNut

Excellent, thank you Wanderer and Karl!  0:)

snyprrr

I've been listening SSs SQs courtesy of the Miami SQ on Conifer. I'd been waiting a while to get to know these two (I'd actually been interested in this issue when it first came out in 1992. Saint-Saens, with the Faure?,...who couldn't go for that combo?!!), and I had dipped into them via the SilverTrustEditions, but now I sat back, and...


Whaaa???... well, honestly, these are some fairly anonymous SQs. I'm almost thinking Spohr here, updated slightly. There's nothing offensive, and unlike Franck, or Deb/Rav, or any other French SQ from the 20th century (@), these two are more in the old fashioned "classical music" mold of just straight up SQs.

My first reaction was that I'd like to hear another version. Though the Miami come fairly well recommended, I just sensed that there could be more sumptousness in these pieces. The notes say that Faure commented that SS was "not successful" in his SQ endeavor, and, I can't vouch for what he was talking about, but, yes, ultimately these two SQs might just leave a slight bit to be desired. On the other hand, in a spectacularly A+ rendition, these two might take on a totally different life. They certainly seem to be able to withstand a more vigourously Romantic approach, with silkier smoother sound, than they get here. Perhaps had the Cleveland Quartet...

I remember Gurn was thinking that these two might be "right up my alley." Mmmm, perhaps, but based now on full listenings, they have gone quite quickly into the wallpaper part of the collection. ::) :P ::) :-[ :-X :-\

As far as I know, they are the available versions:

Quatour Viotti/Erato

Miami Quartet/Conifer

Medici/Koch

Equinox SQ/??? (this one has gotten some good reviews)

and, I think that that's it. Does anyone have any compares?



I'll be honest. I'm listening to No.2 (1919) right now, and I'm having no problems with it. It's just nice, unobtrusive classical style SQ playing, in a very smooth, vanilla coating,... a touch on the sweet side, but not too much,... nothing really memorable, but very easy on the ears. Still, the Spohr comparison seems to stick for me.

The first SQ (1899) might be a bit more of its time (though still very old fashioned), but No.2 definitely is the laaast word on the 19th century, so out of place does it seem in 1919. Maybe Saint-Saens and Glazunov, then, are the last of the last?



I have enjoyed SS's late wind sonatas (and I'm familiar with the war horses), but I feel as though my interest in this composer has seen its last day. Here's to the old poofter, ha! Poor guy...ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz....zzzz....zzzz...

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on October 03, 2009, 11:15:57 AM
I've been listening SSs SQs courtesy of the Miami SQ on Conifer. I'd been waiting a while to get to know these two (I'd actually been interested in this issue when it first came out in 1992. Saint-Saens, with the Faure?,...who couldn't go for that combo?!!), and I had dipped into them via the SilverTrustEditions, but now I sat back, and...


Whaaa???... well, honestly, these are some fairly anonymous SQs. I'm almost thinking Spohr here, updated slightly. There's nothing offensive, and unlike Franck, or Deb/Rav, or any other French SQ from the 20th century (@), these two are more in the old fashioned "classical music" mold of just straight up SQs.

My first reaction was that I'd like to hear another version. Though the Miami come fairly well recommended, I just sensed that there could be more sumptousness in these pieces. The notes say that Faure commented that SS was "not successful" in his SQ endeavor, and, I can't vouch for what he was talking about, but, yes, ultimately these two SQs might just leave a slight bit to be desired. On the other hand, in a spectacularly A+ rendition, these two might take on a totally different life. They certainly seem to be able to withstand a more vigourously Romantic approach, with silkier smoother sound, than they get here. Perhaps had the Cleveland Quartet...

I remember Gurn was thinking that these two might be "right up my alley." Mmmm, perhaps, but based now on full listenings, they have gone quite quickly into the wallpaper part of the collection. ::) :P ::) :-[ :-X :-\

As far as I know, they are the available versions:

Quatour Viotti/Erato

Miami Quartet/Conifer

Medici/Koch

Equinox SQ/??? (this one has gotten some good reviews)

and, I think that that's it. Does anyone have any compares?



I'll be honest. I'm listening to No.2 (1919) right now, and I'm having no problems with it. It's just nice, unobtrusive classical style SQ playing, in a very smooth, vanilla coating,... a touch on the sweet side, but not too much,... nothing really memorable, but very easy on the ears. Still, the Spohr comparison seems to stick for me.

The first SQ (1899) might be a bit more of its time (though still very old fashioned), but No.2 definitely is the laaast word on the 19th century, so out of place does it seem in 1919. Maybe Saint-Saens and Glazunov, then, are the last of the last?



I have enjoyed SS's late wind sonatas (and I'm familiar with the war horses), but I feel as though my interest in this composer has seen its last day. Here's to the old poofter, ha! Poor guy...ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz....zzzz....zzzz...

I still don't know how much I'm enjoying these SQs. No one has any opinion?

The new erato

#63
Quote from: snyprrr on October 07, 2009, 10:12:21 AM
I still don't know how much I'm enjoying these SQs.
Neither do we. But they haven't grabbed me either to the same degree as some of his other chamber works. There's a very fine Hyperion 2-CD with his Piano Quartet and Quintet and various other works, including the wind sonatas, which I find quite a bit more interesting.

ChamberNut

Quote from: snyprrr on October 07, 2009, 10:12:21 AM
I still don't know how much I'm enjoying these SQs. No one has any opinion?

Revised stats for Snyprrr:

The Great and Well Loved Romantic Era String Quartets

Like - 9
Dislike - 974

0.9241% likes  ;D


DavidW

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 07, 2009, 11:20:03 AM
Revised stats for Snyprrr:

The Great and Well Loved Romantic Era String Quartets

Like - 9
Dislike - 974

0.9241% likes  ;D



We should make gmg cards like baseball cards! ;D

ChamberNut

Quote from: DavidW on October 07, 2009, 11:53:44 AM
We should make gmg cards like baseball cards! ;D

In this case, Snyprrr would be batting 9th spot.  :D

snyprrr

ok, DavidW and Chambernut:

How do YOooU rate Saint-Saens SQs?

Do the themes bounce through your head after only the first listen? Do their rhythmic elan whisk you off your feet? Do they make good wallpaper?

Don't blame me just because music died for 75 years! :P

ChamberNut

Quote from: snyprrr on October 09, 2009, 08:42:13 AM
ok, DavidW and Chambernut:

How do YOooU rate Saint-Saens SQs?

Do the themes bounce through your head after only the first listen? Do their rhythmic elan whisk you off your feet? Do they make good wallpaper?

Don't blame me just because music died for 75 years! :P

Actually Snyprrr, I've never heard Double S's string quartets yet.  :-[  It's just fun to bug you.

Runs away

Lethevich

To parrot an opinion, I thought the SQs to be very nice, but less interesting than SS at his best (although I don't rate his chamber music quite as highly as some...).
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

If you own the opinion, Sara, it isn't parroting  0:)

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on October 03, 2009, 11:15:57 AM
I've been listening SSs SQs courtesy of the Miami SQ on Conifer. I'd been waiting a while to get to know these two (I'd actually been interested in this issue when it first came out in 1992. Saint-Saens, with the Faure?,...who couldn't go for that combo?!!), and I had dipped into them via the SilverTrustEditions, but now I sat back, and...


Whaaa???... well, honestly, these are some fairly anonymous SQs. I'm almost thinking Spohr here, updated slightly. There's nothing offensive, and unlike Franck, or Deb/Rav, or any other French SQ from the 20th century (@), these two are more in the old fashioned "classical music" mold of just straight up SQs.

My first reaction was that I'd like to hear another version. Though the Miami come fairly well recommended, I just sensed that there could be more sumptousness in these pieces. The notes say that Faure commented that SS was "not successful" in his SQ endeavor, and, I can't vouch for what he was talking about, but, yes, ultimately these two SQs might just leave a slight bit to be desired. On the other hand, in a spectacularly A+ rendition, these two might take on a totally different life. They certainly seem to be able to withstand a more vigourously Romantic approach, with silkier smoother sound, than they get here. Perhaps had the Cleveland Quartet...

I remember Gurn was thinking that these two might be "right up my alley." Mmmm, perhaps, but based now on full listenings, they have gone quite quickly into the wallpaper part of the collection. ::) :P ::) :-[ :-X :-\

As far as I know, they are the available versions:

Quatour Viotti/Erato

Miami Quartet/Conifer

Medici/Koch

Equinox SQ/??? (this one has gotten some good reviews)

and, I think that that's it. Does anyone have any compares?



I'll be honest. I'm listening to No.2 (1919) right now, and I'm having no problems with it. It's just nice, unobtrusive classical style SQ playing, in a very smooth, vanilla coating,... a touch on the sweet side, but not too much,... nothing really memorable, but very easy on the ears. Still, the Spohr comparison seems to stick for me.

The first SQ (1899) might be a bit more of its time (though still very old fashioned), but No.2 definitely is the laaast word on the 19th century, so out of place does it seem in 1919. Maybe Saint-Saens and Glazunov, then, are the last of the last?



I have enjoyed SS's late wind sonatas (and I'm familiar with the war horses), but I feel as though my interest in this composer has seen its last day. Here's to the old poofter, ha! Poor guy...ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz....zzzz....zzzz...


Well, of course, I had to try again, and so, the Medici String Quartet presented themselves on Ebay. Theirs is one of the two older recordings (along with the Viotti/Erato), and some have spoken of their enjoyment of this version (as compared with the Equinox in a review).

The first thing I noticed was that the Miami disc, with the Faure, reaches into the late 70min mark, but the Medici, with only the two S-S SQs, clocks in at 65mins.!!! WHAAAT is going on here?

I know we've had our "timings" controversies in the Haydn thread (where repeats make the dif many times), but what is going on here? I don't have both discs in front of me, but in No.2, the Miami come up with "7s" in each of the three mvmts., whereas the Medici come up with 9/12/9!!! Every mvmt. is at least two mins. longer in the Medici version, and yet when I compare, there is precious little to tell.

I thought the Miami were going to suck by compare, but they have the edge in the rhythmic bounce and crystal clear recording. The Medici's recording is a bit wooly, but their more "romantic" approach yields great dividends in terms of sheer sonic voluptousness (maybe not that strong a word for S-S!). The Miami surely play, and play well, but the Medici's obvious total dedication to these pieces shows. They make these two pieces sound like absolute masterpieces. My friend commented, as we were going back and forth, that the Medicis sounded like other music, and I had to agree.



As for my previous dismissal of these pieces, well, the Medicis definitely made a believer out of me. The almost ten page essay on S-S's apparent ease of composition (as opposed to the "romantic" turmoil of "greater" composers) really makes the case for these two SQs as being quite something special.

Especially, I noted the finale of No.2, how S-S makes the most convincing case for aural bouquets of flowers: the music literally sounds like the shape of flowers. It's all very joyous and carefree. Also, the slow mvmt. of the e-minor is actually perfectly beautiful. Apparently, there was a LOT I missed with the Miami!



These two pieces are so free of your usually, romantic, composer angst, that it IS easy to dismiss them, but when you have such obsessively dedicated folks as the Medici to try to convince you, you really start to hear things that others might miss (not that the Miami MISS anything, they just aren't as heartbroken over these pieces as the Medici). The pieces are completely understated: music just for music's sake, but, not giving anything away.

Of course, now I have to hear the Viotti on Erato/Apex! ::)

snyprrr

Anyone have opinions of the PIANO QUARTET? Or, what's yer fav SS chamber work? Some have liked the Clarinet Sonata the best.

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on September 27, 2010, 07:20:34 AM
Anyone have opinions of the PIANO QUARTET? Or, what's yer fav SS chamber work? Some have liked the Clarinet Sonata the best.

dear snyprrr,

the piano quartet, on youtube, made me sleepy.

karlhenning

The Piano Quartet played by the Nash Ensemble does not make me sleepy.

Mirror Image

On most days, Saint-Saens bores the living hell out of me, but I do enjoy his Piano Concertos and Danse Macabre. Other than that, he's mostly fluff to me.

listener

We had the  "Egyptian" Piano Concerto (#5) played by Avan Yu this past weekend, and also the Coronation March op.117 written for the coronation of Edward VII (and re-using material from his opera Henry VIII.  I've never  seen a recording of the march but the concert was recorded by the C.B.C. and I'll try to get a broadcast date as it will be on line.
"Keep your hand on the throttle and your eye on the rail as you walk through life's pathway."

The new erato

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 29, 2010, 04:45:02 PM
On most days, Saint-Saens bores the living hell out of me, but I do enjoy his Piano Concertos and Danse Macabre. Other than that, he's mostly fluff to me.
Certainly not a "deep" composer, and certainly variable, but what I associate with him is fun. Lots of his chamber music (as well as Carnival of the animals) is simply fun listening.

JoshLilly

How many have read his Musical Memories?  It's truly fascinating, reading of his meetings with the likes of Rossini and Liszt, of his varying opinions of Massenet as a musician and as a person, and so on.  I wish it were longer.  An English translation can be read for free here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=MOcPAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Musical+Memories+Camille+site:books.google.com&source=bl&ots=-wPEah_VT3&sig=Tc4ulFNCL9unA4wmd8bNNW3IRqw&hl=en&ei=OdbBTN6JBMn2nAeLubyUAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I highly recommend it, as it - or at least this English translation - contains some really memorable and clever, quotable lines.  Included is this passage that perhaps could be turned onto his own works, for those who don't think too highly of his music.

"it is not the absence of defects but the presence of merits which makes works and men great.  It is not always well to be without blemish.  A too regular face or too pure voice lacks expression.  If there is no such thing as perfection in this world, it is doubtless because it is not needed."


He also described some of the trends of music in his last years - singling out the "a-tonic" music:

"the man who abandons all keys and piles up dissonances which he neither introduces nor concludes and who, as a result, grunts his way through music as a pig through a flower garden."

tarantella

Just picked up this new disc of Saint-Saens music for piano (some charming and relatively unknown piano pieces, as well as a few barnstormers) and his superb Cello Sonata in C minor which is a masterpiece. Just released this month, playing and sound quality are first rate
http://www.crotchet.co.uk/CDE84433.html