The greatest art music since 1985...

[AnthonyAthletic]

Cheers, Tony!  Can't help remembering Zappa's quip, "The program says World Première, but it really means Final Performance."

That's a great quote, sadly true 

[Karl Henning]

Ooooh, thanks for the recommendation!  Is there a recording?

None official, alas!

[bhodges]

Here are some works I'd include in the greatest written since 1985, along with some of the others suggested, e.g., Wuorinen, Lang. Listed in chronological order (yes, I fudged the date slightly for the first few):

Karlheinz Stockhausen: Licht (1977-2003)
Pierre Boulez: Répons (1984)
György Ligeti: Piano Etudes (1985-2001)
Wolfgang Rihm: Jagden und Formen (1985-2001)
György Kurtág: Stele (1994)
Gérard Grisey: Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil (1997-1998)
Fausto Romitelli: Professor Bad Trip (1998-2000)
Georg Friedrich Haas: in vain (2000-2002)
Helmut Lachenmann: String Quartet No. 3, "Grido" (2001)
Beat Furrer: FAMA (2004-2005)
Hans Abrahamsen: Schnee (2006-2008)

--Bruce

[some guy]

Well, let's slow down a little and really think about what we're saying.

Or not.

OK, then. Let's just keep listing all the nice pieces since 1985 (and pieces from 1984, Brewski, are not since 1985) that we like. And play into the hands of the Luddites by carrying on any discussion using their terms. Yes, that should work.

Because, after all, Sean and his disciples notwithstanding, art continues to be made and will continue to be made world without end amen. It's what we humans do.

[jochanaan]

...art continues to be made and will continue to be made world without end amen. It's what we humans do.

Indeed.  It's part of the human spirit.

Another great one is Messiaen's Éclairs sur l'au-delà, first played in 1992.

I also like Elliott Carter's opera What Next?

[Karl Henning]

Indeed.  It's part of the human spirit.

. . . Because, after all, Sean and his disciples notwithstanding, art continues to be made and will continue to be made world without end amen. It's what we humans do.

The mystery to me is the occasional fatuous impulse to pontificate that Art Is supposedly Dead.

And then that the "last great work of art" is something so arguably superficial and gaudy as . . . Nixon in China?

Oh: superficial and gaudy. Did i just chance upon the Key to Sean? . . .

[Todd]

Because, after all, Sean and his disciples notwithstanding, art continues to be made and will continue to be made world without end amen. It's what we humans do.

True.  Don't these "all new stuff sucks" types of threads pop up from time to time?  And the result is the same: those who cling to such silly ideas remain unconvinced, and those who like such music will continue to like such music.  I mean, with works by Carter and Schnittke, Dutilleux and Lutoslawski, and the like out there, the assertion that there is no more good or great music is as patently absurd as saying the sky is plaid.

[Cato]

On the DVD of Andrei Rublev, movie director Andrei Tarkovsky comments that art is the response to Life not being perfect.

That is an idea which has been stated before in other ways, but which remains true. 

Certainly it is not the only definition for the artistic impulse, but is a good one!

So unless Life has somehow become perfect in the last decades...   0:)

[Karl Henning]

Not sure if this qualifies, but . . . when it was noticed that Sean had returned to GMG, someone was heard to mutter, "Perfect."

[PaulSC]

...with works by Carter and Schnittke, Dutilleux and Lutoslawski, and the like out there, the assertion that there is no more good or great music is as patently absurd as saying the sky is plaid.

Or falling!

[springrite]

Here are some works I'd include in the greatest written since 1985, along with some of the others suggested, e.g., Wuorinen, Lang. Listed in chronological order (yes, I fudged the date slightly for the first few):

Karlheinz Stockhausen: Licht (1977-2003)
Pierre Boulez: Répons (1984)
György Ligeti: Piano Etudes (1985-2001)
Wolfgang Rihm: Jagden und Formen (1985-2001)
György Kurtág: Stele (1994)
Gérard Grisey: Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil (1997-1998)
Fausto Romitelli: Professor Bad Trip (1998-2000)
Georg Friedrich Haas: in vain (2000-2002)
Helmut Lachenmann: String Quartet No. 3, "Grido" (2001)
Beat Furrer: FAMA (2004-2005)
Hans Abrahamsen: Schnee (2006-2008)

--Bruce

Great list!

Is De Staat composed after 1985? I'd add that one as well, not to mention a few Carter works mentioned earlier.

[Sergeant Rock]

Or falling!

Well, Sean is the forum expert on that topic.




Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Well, Sean is the forum expert on that topic.

(* chortle *)

[Karl Henning]

Is De Staat composed after 1985?

1972–76

[Cato]

Actually, I liked the Chicken Little movie!  It had some funny stuff! 

Here is a list from WQXR of the top 10 operas of the early 21st century:

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/blogs/operavore/2011/oct/17/top-10-operas-written-last-10-years/


YouTube has what seems to be an entire recording of #3: Lost Highway by Olga Neuwirth via David Lynch.

http://www.youtube.com/v/BEohnostKao

[bhodges]

Great list!

Thanks, Paul - a very personal one, of course, and there are many more. Personally I think the last few decades have produced some magnificent pieces, many of which can stand beside the greats of other eras. Granted, for new pieces, we don't have the benefit of hundreds of years of performance history for any of them.

Here is a list from WQXR of the top 10 operas of the early 21st century:

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/blogs/operavore/2011/oct/17/top-10-operas-written-last-10-years/

Nice to see the Neuwirth Lost Highway mentioned. I saw it here in a good (not great) production, but there were enough high points, even so. And certainly some of the others on the list, like Birtwistle's The Minotaur (have seen the DVD) are worthy candidates.

--Bruce

[Gurn Blanston]

Not sure if this qualifies, but . . . when it was noticed that Sean had returned to GMG, someone was heard to mutter, "Perfect."

Well, that was artistically muttered, though...   

[Sean]

Oops, sorry, Biggus....

I rank higher than any, I'll have you know.

[Sean]

Hi some guy

I don't agree that greatness is a consensus or any matter of relativity and I side entirely with the traditional views of aesthetics that though subjectively experienced it's universalizable; differences of view can always be explained away. I've read your thoughts on establishing a perspective and time needed to compare with the past, and they're incorrect; I appreciate your clear writing however. For now perhaps we can agree to disagree as the discussion has been well worked over, as you know.

[Sean]

DaveF

Thanks for that Dave. Firstly I haven't heard MD's Third mentioned for a long long time, an extraordinary and indeed unique masterpiece. It was among the first more modern works I ever got to know, a CD I bought about 1986, I think the same recording under the composer though not entirely sure now.

The harmonic planning across this large and imposing construction is remarkable and I can't think of anything else like it in British music; there's this lurching character to much of the music to which seascape imagery was later attached but this is a towering piece of ruthless abstraction. I'm going to hear the Naxos reissue later today.

Just one other thought, you didn't mention Messiaen's opera, I think finished 1983- it comes to mind in connection with the MD symphony actually for its long-term explorations using these similar richly filled out short repeating motives.

Some of the other works you list I see as among music's valedictory little cul-de-sacs that composers have had a wonder down and back from; there are only ruins to rummaging through now.

Despite everything said so far, I'm totally in agreement with Sean's opinion - not explicitly stated, but clearly implied in his choice of cut-off date - that 1984 was quite a year, giving us Glass's Akhnaten, Birtwistle's Secret Theatre, Maxwell Davies's 3rd symphony (perhaps the greatest British symphony of all time) and Messiaen's Livre du Saint Sacrement.  And that's merely a small selection of the towering masterpieces composed in that terminal year, which also include Lutosławski's Chain 2, Berio's Un re in ascolto, Takemitsu's Riverrun, Hallgrímsson's Poemi and Qu Xiaosong's Mong Dong.  Well, if Western art music had to come to an end (as all good things must), what a way to sign off!

DF
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