Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Mirror Image]

All excellent in my view. Abravanel is an underrated conductor.

I think he was, too. I haven't heard a lot from him, but what I have heard has been excellent all across the board.

[vandermolen]

I think he was, too. I haven't heard a lot from him, but what I have heard has been excellent all across the board.

I have his Sibelius cycle and there is, I think, a Mahler one as well. I like his double CD set of music by Bloch on EMI as well as all of his VW discs. Through him I came to know Dona Nobis Pacem and Flos Campi.

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I have his Sibelius cycle and there is, I think, a Mahler one as well. I like his double CD set of music by Bloch on EMI as well as all of his VW discs. Through him I came to know Dona Nobis Pacem and Flos Campi.

Very cool, Jeffrey. I think I first heard Abravanel in Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite (it may have been another composer/work altogether) and was really impressed with the raw exuberance of the performance. Can't wait to hear his RVW.

[Oates]

I've recently greatly enjoyed listening to RVW's Fantasia on Sussex Folk Tunes.

Was the only recording by Julian LLoyd Webber / Venon Handley on RCA?

I know the composer withdrew this after its first performance and it now seems to be very little heard, but this is a lovely and substantial suite for cello and orchestra from his prime years (1930). Any other enthusiasts? Given the current interest in reviving little heard or 'lost' pieces I'm surprised this hasn't been revived.

[Christo]

I've recently greatly enjoyed listening to RVW's Fantasia on Sussex Folk Tunes.

Was the only recording by Julian LLoyd Webber / Venon Handley on RCA?
I know the composer withdrew this after its first performance and it now seems to be very little heard, but this is a lovely and substantial suite for cello and orchestra from his prime years (1930). Any other enthusiasts? Given the current interest in reviving little heard or 'lost' pieces I'm surprised this hasn't been revived.

You're right: the only recording that I'm aware of, is the one by Julian Lloyd Webber, recorded in 1983 and released a couple of times on CD (I heard it first as an LP).  And I found this performance by two musicians on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_CcZtN4Wr0

[vandermolen]

I've recently greatly enjoyed listening to RVW's Fantasia on Sussex Folk Tunes.

Was the only recording by Julian LLoyd Webber / Venon Handley on RCA?

I know the composer withdrew this after its first performance and it now seems to be very little heard, but this is a lovely and substantial suite for cello and orchestra from his prime years (1930). Any other enthusiasts? Given the current interest in reviving little heard or 'lost' pieces I'm surprised this hasn't been revived.

Yes, that's a very nice work (especially as I live in Sussex  ). I also first heard it on an LP with a collage of photos of Holst, Delius and VW on the cover of I remember correctly.

[cilgwyn]

The recent Chandos cd of VW's Ninth Symphony and Job is a Musicweb Recording of the Month and gets a rave review. Some of the responses here have been more muted. Even if some earlier intepretations have the edge,is this still worth acquiring on sonic grounds. How spectacular is this Chandos cd recording? And when does spectacular become more,or as,important as the performance itself?! This reminds me of that Telarc recording of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition,where everyone seemed to be raving about the sound quality and lushness of the strings. What a yawn!! I ended up taking it to a charity shop and Fritz Reiner's truly thrilling and eerie interpretation reigns supreme!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/RVW_sy9_CHSA5180.htm

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I didn't like the new Andrew Davis recording. I felt that the audio quality was certainly fantastic, but this alone wasn't enough to save the performances from lacking a lot of the magic I get from Boult, Thomson, and Previn. For my money, Hickox has the best Job on recording (w/ the Bournemouth SO) on EMI.

[vandermolen]

I enjoyed Job more than the Ninth Symphony with its rushed finale. I thought that the organ was really spectacular in Job and it was worth having for that.

Here is a review of the CD:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/RVW_sy9_CHSA5180.htm

[vandermolen]

I thought that this was a very fine performance and recording of 'A Pastoral Symphony' with a greater sense of rhythmic drive than other versions and, uniquely I think, using a tenor rather than soprano soloist at the beginning and end of the last movement which, I think, relates the work more closely to the composer's experience of the First World War. This is now my favourite version of 'A Pastoral Symphony' along with the performances under Elder and Previn. Symphony 4 is given a powerful performance too which reminded me in places of the composer's own recording:
[asin]B06VT5RT11[/asin]

[Karl Henning]

I thought that this was a very fine performance and recording of 'A Pastoral Symphony' with a greater sense of rhythmic drive than other versions and, uniquely I think, using a tenor rather than soprano soloist at the beginning and end of the last movement which, I think, relates the work more closely to the composer's experience of the First World War.

Now I wonder if that is "allowed" in the score 

[vandermolen]

Now I wonder if that is "allowed" in the score 

Hi Karl apparently VW sanctioned a version with male soloist.

[Karl Henning]

Hi Karl apparently VW sanctioned a version with male soloist.

Interesting, thanks.  You see, I was thinking, (a) did the score specify a soprano, so that a tenor substitution is a plain liberty? or (b) did the score say (e.g.) "soprano or tenor," and then the soprano became sort of obligatory because, it's always been done that way. . . ?

[vandermolen]

Interesting, thanks.  You see, I was thinking, (a) did the score specify a soprano, so that a tenor substitution is a plain liberty? or (b) did the score say (e.g.) "soprano or tenor," and then the soprano became sort of obligatory because, it's always been done that way. . . ?

Karl
The booklet note refers to '..his [VW's] alternative of a tenor voice brings us startlingly to the realisation of the loss of the Western Front.'

I think I read somewhere that someone (possibly from a school) asked VW's permission to use a tenor voice and VW agreed - maybe it came from this precedent rather than being in the score. If no voice is available a clarinet can be used (you could play it  ).

[Oates]

Karl
The booklet note refers to '..his [VW's] alternative of a tenor voice brings us startlingly to the realisation of the loss of the Western Front.'

I think I read somewhere that someone (possibly from a school) asked VW's permission to use a tenor voice and VW agreed - maybe it came from this precedent rather than being in the score. If no voice is available a clarinet can be used (you could play it  ).

I did wonder about this. I've got tickets to hear the Pastoral Symphony next Sunday in Manchester, and it lists a tenor soloist.

https://tickets.bridgewater-hall.co.uk/single/eventDetail.aspx?p=33181

[vandermolen]

I did wonder about this. I've got tickets to hear the Pastoral Symphony next Sunday in Manchester, and it lists a tenor soloist.

https://tickets.bridgewater-hall.co.uk/single/eventDetail.aspx?p=33181

How great! You must let us know what it's like.

[Oates]

How great! You must let us know what it's like.

Tallis Fantasia was very good (if a little slowly paced), with the smaller string group off stage up in a gallery.

Next up was Sofia Gubaidulina's Offertorium described in the programme as "searingly beautiful" (trades descriptions violation?) was actually just searing - as challenging a piece of discordant serialism as I've heard in a concert. Obviously a logical choice for what was billed as a St George's Day concert! I don't understand this style of music so I can't criticise. Clearly if this piece was programmed with music by Harrison Birtwistle instead of RVW, then there would likely be about 21 people in the audience. As it was, it wasn't sold out.

I was pleased to hear the Pastoral Symphony being performed as I suspect that this was a rare opportunity to experience it outside of London. However, I was not convinced that conductor Vassily Sinaisky had the piece fully under control - brass seemed too loud at times and not so well integrated with the strings. The solo tenor was not so successful for me - again, he was singing from up in a gallery, sounded a bit jarring at times. I'd definitely have preferred a soprano.

I accept that many of these comments might just be the result of years of listening to my two favourite CD versions (Vernon Handley and Richard Hickox).

You can hear this concert for yourself on BBC Radio 3 in Concert on Friday 28 April at 7.30pm. I'm wondering if the recording will improve the balance issues somewhat.

[cilgwyn]

All excellent in my view. Abravanel is an underrated conductor.

Agreed! I'm a bit of an Abravanel fan. I like his Sibelius. The way he brings out the icy desolation of all that snowy tundra. Perhaps being out there in the desert helps (cold at night,desolate!). His strings sound so icy. I feel more coldness from the Utah strings than the Berglund/Bournemouth SO. But the BSO horns blaze out in a way that the Utah orchestra can't quite match (they try hard with what they've got!). His Mahler is very satisfying too. All the performances are good,but some are very good! I also like the pioneering zeal. Not the first recordings,of course;but the first fully integral cycle. Either way,there is a genuine feeling of exploration;not just another cycle. I also like his recording Of Rimsky Korsakov's Antar Symphony. I find it quite magical. The fact that part of the action takes part in the desert,is another interesting connection!
Haven't heard his Vaughan Williams,I'm afraid!

[vandermolen]

Agreed! I'm a bit of an Abravanel fan. I like his Sibelius. The way he brings out the icy desolation of all that snowy tundra. Perhaps being out there in the desert helps (cold at night,desolate!). His strings sound so icy. I feel more coldness from the Utah strings than the Berglund/Bournemouth SO. But the BSO horns blaze out in a way that the Utah orchestra can't quite match (they try hard with what they've got!). His Mahler is very satisfying too. All the performances are good,but some are very good! I also like the pioneering zeal. Not the first recordings,of course;but the first fully integral cycle. Either way,there is a genuine feeling of exploration;not just another cycle. I also like his recording Of Rimsky Korsakov's Antar Symphony. I find it quite magical. The fact that part of the action takes part in the desert,is another interesting connection!
Haven't heard his Vaughan Williams,I'm afraid!

Cilgwyn, I like your desert/Sibelius comments. If you get the chance try the VW Symphony 6. Longest Epilogue on disc but keeps the tension throughout - the coupling with Doña Nobis Pacem is a great VW disc but look out for the Vanguard release and not the Silverline one with the DVD. His Flos Campi is excellent too. In Doña Nobis Pacem the American pronunciation of the Utah choir goes well with the setting of Whitman's poetry.

[Mirror Image]

I thought that this was a very fine performance and recording of 'A Pastoral Symphony' with a greater sense of rhythmic drive than other versions and, uniquely I think, using a tenor rather than soprano soloist at the beginning and end of the last movement which, I think, relates the work more closely to the composer's experience of the First World War. This is now my favourite version of 'A Pastoral Symphony' along with the performances under Elder and Previn. Symphony 4 is given a powerful performance too which reminded me in places of the composer's own recording:
[asin]B06VT5RT11[/asin]

Not sure if I can get onboard with this new Manze recording considering the disappointment that was his first RVW release of Symphonies 2 & 8. Also the idea of a tenor singing the wordless vocal part in the last movement of A Pastoral Symphony doesn't sit well with me, especially when a woman's voice just feels right to me and represents almost this angelic voice bursting through the clouds. Also, Manze's conducting leaves much to be desired as well. He's accurate and technically proficient in getting crystal clear clarity from an orchestra, but RVW's music isn't about this at all but about passion and trying to convey a more emotional message. Anyway, this is all IMHO.