Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Mirror Image]

In past years the 4th Symphony seemed to be popular with recordings by Bernstein/NYPO (plus 3 shorter works) and Stokowski/NYPO, the latter is coupled with No 6 from Mitropoulos. Ormandy recorded the Tallis Fantasia and a couple of shorter works. Of more recent recordings I can only think of Robert Spano and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra - the Sea Symphony, Fourth Symphony & Dona nobis pacem, 5th Symphony & Tallis Fantasia. Presumably these works got public performances before recording.

We mustn't forget Maurice Abravanel's excellent RVW recordings with the Utah Symphony Orchestra. His performance of Symphony No. 6 is quite powerful.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Have other American members had any luck catching a live performance of a major RVW work on our side of the pond?

I've heard performances of A Sea Symphony and 5th Symphony in recent years, at the Grant Park Festival under Carlos Kalmar, who likes to program American and British works. I almost made it to a performance of the 8th Symphony recently, done by one of the suburban orchestras. Also heard Mark Elder do an all VW/Elgar program with the CSO last year, but the main work on that was the Elgar 1st Symphony.

True. It seems that American and British music suffers the most from neglect by American orchestral programming these days.

A lot depends on the conductor: I can expect someone like Kalmar to play these works, but Muti? Forget it. But yeah, I think the best VW symphonies deserve to get played about as much as the major DSCH or Prokofiev symphonies, and so far that's not the case.

[kyjo]

Walton's Viola Concerto? Really? I've never seen this on a major US orchestra's concert schedule. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened of course, but this seems to be a work we would actually be least likely to hear. As for the other mentioned works, that's a very probable list. I might add RVW's Tallis Fantasia to the list, though.

I've heard it live once, but I suppose saying it has a "firm hold" in the orchestral repertoire is a bit of a stretch. It does have quite a firm hold in the viola repertoire though, as my violist colleagues are always talking about it I was also lucky enough to witness a moving live performance of Britten's Violin Concerto a couple years ago.

[Biffo]

I'd love to hear a recording of Mitropoulos doing No.6 but I think it may be the other way round with Stokowski doing No.6 and Mitropoulos in No.4.

You are quite right, I misread the disc details on the back of the case.

[kyjo]

I've heard performances of A Sea Symphony and 5th Symphony in recent years, at the Grant Park Festival under Carlos Kalmar, who likes to program American and British works. I almost made it to a performance of the 8th Symphony recently, done by one of the suburban orchestras. Also heard Mark Elder do an all VW/Elgar program with the CSO last year, but the main work on that was the Elgar 1st Symphony.

A lot depends on the conductor: I can expect someone like Kalmar to play these works, but Muti? Forget it. But yeah, I think the best VW symphonies deserve to get played about as much as the major DSCH or Prokofiev symphonies, and so far that's not the case.

Yes, Kalmar does seem like one of the more adventurous conductors out there. I happened to be in Chicago when he programmed Frank Martin's In terra pax this summer - a very moving experience.

[Mahlerian]

I heard a performance of Vaughan Williams' Dona Nobis Pacem by the Harrisburg Symphony about ten years ago (my first exposure to the work).  The main piece on the program was Beethoven's Ninth Symphony (an acquaintance was singing in both works).

Orchestras are loath to perform less well-known works by well-known composers.  That's as true for Beethoven or Brahms as it is for 20th century composers, whose works tend to be less well-known to begin with.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Orchestras are loath to perform less well-known works by well-known composers.  That's as true for Beethoven or Brahms as it is for 20th century composers, whose works tend to be less well-known to begin with.

Yes, I doubt that Beethoven's Cantata on the Accession of the Emperor Leopold II would pack 'em in nowadays. Or even something like that "Christ on the Mount of Olives" oratorio, or for Mahler, Das Klagende Lied - I don't think ever been aware of a performance of those anywhere near me.

[Roasted Swan]

I told you it was good!

VW told Barbirolli that 'A London Symphony' was his favourite of his own symphonies (at least his first eight as he told him before he had composed No.9).

BBC Music Magazine (Christmas issue) reviews three VW CDs including the complete 'Scott of the Antarctic' film music (excellent!) and the Brabbins 1920 London Symphony as well as the Andrew Davis 'Sinfonia Antartica/Concerto for Two Pianos CD. Of the Brabbins 1920 London Symphony the reviewer writes:

'In the 1920 version the serene polyphonic writing for strings in the first movement's introduction is mirrored by a similar balancing passage in the finale's epilogue. Fine as this is, its omission in the final 1933 version makes the epilogue's process of dissolution more concise, and therefore more striking. The post-1920 removal of two superb linking passages in the slow movement is much harder to understand - especially the second of these, with its solo horn, cor anglais, clarinet, and mysteriously dissonant accompanying tremolo strings.'

Thought this was interesting and I see his point about the mirroring of the 'serene polyphonic writing' at the end of the work. However, I'd much rather it was still there and agree with Michael Kennedy whom I seem to recall wrote that the extended cut at the end ushered in the epilogue too abruptly.

'

How does this compare to the earlier Barbirolli/Halle that was Nixa(?) released on EMI coupled with No.8?  I've read somewhere that No.2 is better still than this later remake when Barbirolli was quite ill?

[Baron Scarpia]

How does this compare to the earlier Barbirolli/Halle that was Nixa(?) released on EMI coupled with No.8?  I've read somewhere that No.2 is better still than this later remake when Barbirolli was quite ill?

I don't think his health was too bad in '67 when he made that recording, not judging from the result. An LP transfer of the '57 Pye Nixa recording can be found here.

http://themusicparlour.blogspot.com/2013/08/barbirolli-halle-vaughan-williams.html

What has me curious is the history of Barbirolli's recordings of the 8th. There seems to be a Pye recording with Halle from '56 and a Mercury Living Presence release with Halle dated '58. Could they be the same recording? Did Barbirolli record it separately for Mercury living presence. That would be my holy grail, if it was a real Mercury Living Presence, Wilma Cozart production.

Anyway, I've ordered a Barbirolli Society CD with a recording of the 2nd and 8th. (SJB 1021) I guess I will find out what 8th it is when it shows up. Details on the Barbirolli Society web site are sparse. They separately list a BBC recording of the premier in 1956.

[asin]B002SQC83G[/asin]

http://www.barbirollisociety.co.uk/cd-listings

Anyway, my plan for the immediate future is Vaughan Williams 5th. Barbirolli/EMI, Andrew Davis/Teldec, Andre Previn/Telarc

Another things that shocks me is the extent to which EMI (now Warner) neglected the Boult Vaughan Williams Cycle. Their advertising copy describes it as one the crown jewels of the label, and they are still selling what strikes me as a very poor digital master made in 1986. One of the pinnacles of their catalog, and they can't remaster it from original tapes after 30 years?

[vandermolen]

How does this compare to the earlier Barbirolli/Halle that was Nixa(?) released on EMI coupled with No.8?  I've read somewhere that No.2 is better still than this later remake when Barbirolli was quite ill?

Quite a few people prefer the earlier performance, especially as the scherzo is not controversially slow like the later EMI recording. I enjoy both but I prefer the warmer and better recorded later version.

[vandermolen]

I don't think his health was too bad in '67 when he made that recording, not judging from the result. An LP transfer of the '57 Pye Nixa recording can be found here.

http://themusicparlour.blogspot.com/2013/08/barbirolli-halle-vaughan-williams.html

What has me curious is the history of Barbirolli's recordings of the 8th. There seems to be a Pye recording with Halle from '56 and a Mercury Living Presence release with Halle dated '58. Could they be the same recording? Did Barbirolli record it separately for Mercury living presence. That would be my holy grail, if it was a real Mercury Living Presence, Wilma Cozart production.

Anyway, I've ordered a Barbirolli Society CD with a recording of the 2nd and 8th. (SJB 1021) I guess I will find out what 8th it is when it shows up. Details on the Barbirolli Society web site are sparse. They separately list a BBC recording of the premier in 1956.

[asin]B002SQC83G[/asin]

http://www.barbirollisociety.co.uk/cd-listings

Anyway, my plan for the immediate future is Vaughan Williams 5th. Barbirolli/EMI, Andrew Davis/Teldec, Andre Previn/Telarc

Another things that shocks me is the extent to which EMI (now Warner) neglected the Boult Vaughan Williams Cycle. Their advertising copy describes it as one the crown jewels of the label, and they are still selling what strikes me as a very poor digital master made in 1986. One of the pinnacles of their catalog, and they can't remaster it from original tapes after 30 years?

Re: Symphony 8, one is the studio recording (image above) and the other is a recording of the premiere performance (below).
[asin]B005O0N1IO[/asin]

[Baron Scarpia]

Re: Symphony 8, one is the studio recording (image above) and the other is a recording of the premiere performance (below).
[asin]B005O0N1IO[/asin]

To eliminate all ambiguity, this is the Pye release. Studio or live premier? The cover art seems to imply live recording, but the Barbirolli Society attributes the live recording to the BBC, not to Pye. Use of the same photo seems to imply that Pye published a live recording, not a studio recording.



And is this a separate studio recording by Mercury, or a re-release of a Pye studio recording? The scraps of information I have found don't seem to definitively resolve the question of whether the studio 8 from Barbirolli society is a studio recording by Pye or a studio recording by Mercury.



This recording is the holy grail, as far as I am concerned. 

Note added:

Discogs bibliography lists this Mercury recording as published by Pye outsider the U.S. That's it. The only question is whether the Mercury production team recorded it, or whether it was simply licensed by Mercury.

[vandermolen]

I think that the Pye and Mercury are the same studio recording - the premiere of Symphony 8 was recently issued by the Barbirolli Society - I'm not aware of it ever having been issued before. The PYE is the 'premiere recording' as opposed to the 'premiere performance'. Just to confuse things further I think I have a CD of another live performance by Barbirolli whilst on tour somewhere.
[asin]B003NA7G5G[/asin]
I just misread the 'Special offer' as '1 CD for the price of 3' 

[Sergeant Rock]

To eliminate all ambiguity, this is the Pye release. Studio or live premier? The cover art seems to imply live recording, but the Barbirolli Society attributes the live recording to the BBC, not to Pye. Use of the same photo seems to imply that Pye published a live recording, not a studio recording.

The Pye is a studio recording made on 19 June 1956. Dutton released a remaster a few years ago, using Pye's original master tape and reproducing the Pye LP cover for the inlay of the CD:





The photo and autographs are from the premiere (2 May 1956) but the Pye recorded performance was a month later. The production team was Wilma Cozart and Harold Lawrence producers, Robert Fine balance engineer.

And is this a separate studio recording by Mercury, or a re-release of a Pye studio recording?

I agree with vandermolen: same studio recording. Besides Pye, Mercury and Dutton, it was also released on the Vanguard Everyman label in the 60s. My first classical LP:




Sarge

[vandermolen]

The Pye is a studio recording made on 19 June 1956. Dutton released a remaster a few years ago, using Pye's original master tape and reproducing the Pye LP cover for the inlay of the CD:





The photo and autographs are from the premiere (2 May 1956) but the Pye recorded performance was a month later. The production team was Wilma Cozart and Harold Lawrence producers, Robert Fine balance engineer.

I agree with vandermolen: same studio recording. Besides Pye, Mercury and Dutton, it was also released on the Vanguard Everyman label in the 60s. My first classical LP:




Sarge

I love the cover of your first classical LP Sarge. 

[Baron Scarpia]

The photo and autographs are from the premiere (2 May 1956) but the Pye recorded performance was a month later. The production team was Wilma Cozart and Harold Lawrence producers, Robert Fine balance engineer.

That's what I was hoping to hear, a Cozart/Fine production. My only question now is whether the disc I ordered on the Barbirolli Society label will be the same quality as the Dutton release. Quite possibly it the same master.

[vandermolen]

To eliminate all ambiguity, this is the Pye release. Studio or live premier? The cover art seems to imply live recording, but the Barbirolli Society attributes the live recording to the BBC, not to Pye. Use of the same photo seems to imply that Pye published a live recording, not a studio recording.



And is this a separate studio recording by Mercury, or a re-release of a Pye studio recording? The scraps of information I have found don't seem to definitively resolve the question of whether the studio 8 from Barbirolli society is a studio recording by Pye or a studio recording by Mercury.



This recording is the holy grail, as far as I am concerned. 

Note added:

Discogs bibliography lists this Mercury recording as published by Pye outsider the U.S. That's it. The only question is whether the Mercury production team recorded it, or whether it was simply licensed by Mercury.

I love the photo of VW on the Mercury release. Never seen that LP image before. Thanks for posting.

[Biffo]

That's what I was hoping to hear, a Cozart/Fine production. My only question now is whether the disc I ordered on the Barbirolli Society label will be the same quality as the Dutton release. Quite possibly it the same master.

I have the album you have ordered SJB 1021 but it is not completely helpful. Symphony No 8 is the Cozart/Lawrence production (19 June 1956) you are hoping for but no details are given in the booklet as to remastering. The disc label says SJB 1021 and 'This compilation& digital remastering [published] 1992 The Barbirolli Society'. Amazon gives the release date of the coupling of Symphonies 2 & 8 as 23 Nov 2009 but one of the covers illustrated above shows No 8 as a separate issue.

The book 'Life with Glorious John' by Evelyn Barbirolli (2002) has a discography but it is organised by the original recording dates. Symphony No 8 is ls listed as recorded 19th June 1956 and the current (at the time) available recording as Dutton CDJSB 1021. The London Symphony (1957) is also listed as CDJSB 1021. It looks like the album you have on order is a 1992 Dutton remastering reissued by The Barbirolli Society.

I was very pleased with the disc when I bought it but haven't listened to it for a while, perhaps I should refresh my memory.

[Mirror Image]

This is the only RVW Barbirolli recording I own:



It's pretty good, but I'm not as enthusiastic for it as some people are. I find Barbirolli's Elgar much more interesting from an interpretative point-of-view.

[vandermolen]

This is the only RVW Barbirolli recording I own:



It's pretty good, but I'm not as enthusiastic for it as some people are. I find Barbirolli's Elgar much more interesting from an interpretative point-of-view.

That's interesting John. Certainly I prefer his more controversial later recording of A London Symphony on EMI and Previn's version of No.8. Having said that I still enjoy these earlier recordings, especially as Barbirolli was the dedicatee of No.8 (as with Boult and 'Job').