Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 445074 times)

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Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4020 on: May 03, 2019, 12:37:17 PM »
All those are terrific endings IMO. Rachmaninov's first conveys a sense of looming catastrophe ( something I always relate to  8)) throughout and then it finally plunges headlong into the abyss in the coda. Marvellous - I love that ending.

I love a good epilogue too. If the composer is not up to scratch I find I have turned off the piece long before the epilogue. (I've never thought of Bruckner's 9th Adagio as an epilogue and the SPCM realisation shows how the symphony would have ended IMO).

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4021 on: May 03, 2019, 12:46:18 PM »
I like an epilogue if it is good. Strauss’ Don Juan has a great one.

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4022 on: May 03, 2019, 11:15:52 PM »
What!!  Dissing Orchestral Codas [Epilogues]!!!! Never - glorious things  ;) ..... RVW London Symphony / Bax 7 / Rach 1 & 3 / Bruckner 9 (if you count the Adagio as an ending.....)  Just for starters!

It's more the crash-bang-wallop barnstorming style I had in mind.  The final bars of Rach's 2nd Piano Concerto would be a prime example.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4023 on: May 03, 2019, 11:59:55 PM »
I like an epilogue if it is good. Strauss’ Don Juan has a great one.

+ VW A London Symphony (1913 especially), Symphony 6, Bax symphonies 3 and 7. Madetoja, Symphony 2.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4024 on: May 04, 2019, 12:35:26 AM »
It's more the crash-bang-wallop barnstorming style I had in mind. 

That's fair enough - and of course it s exactly that type of ending that Arnold parodies so funnily in his Grand Grand Overture.  But here's a question for you..... is the Coda of Shostakovich 5th empty rhetoric for you or grinding despair expressed through frozen triumph....?

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4025 on: May 04, 2019, 11:39:04 PM »
I would call it heavy sarcasm wielded like a blunt axe.

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4026 on: May 05, 2019, 01:12:53 AM »
I wrote:
The Boult (stereo recording) I think I remember reading at time of release and first reviews, that the organ was recorded separately (though probably at the same venue, Walthamstow - I'm guessing now) - I remember that because it was radical, at that time.

I guessed wrong - that recording was in the Kingsway Hall.  There was an organ there but it was apparently not highly regarded, and I would still speculate that the organ on this 1969 Boult recording was probably dubbed - simply, from an engineering and production point of view, "because we can".

Here's an image of the Kingsway Hall - with Boult at the podium - and the link below it, by an EMI engineer of that time, is worth a read as well.


David Pickett - the Golden Age of Stereo

The Kingsway Hall was loved for its acoustic, but problematic for the engineers because of its central London location with stop-go traffic noise and frequent underground trains.  Apparently the usual arrangement was opposite to the above - with the conductor facing away from the arch and the orchestra occupying the staggered audience area.

This morning I listened to the live 1984 Haitink/LPO recording of the Antartica - with its (presumably) live real-time organ contribution recorded by (apparently) skilled BBC engineers - and also 'Landscape' from the Manze recording again - all on heaphones unfortunately as I wouldn't want to frighten the horses on this peaceful Sunday morning.
The Haitink recording gives an opportunity to hear how the live contest between full-bore organ and full-bore orchestra could actually pan out.  Firstly, this performance really brings out the Bruckner, who I feel is never that far away during this symphony.  The organ pedal underpinning is (as you would expect) very convincing - generally more powerful than in most other recordings I've listened to (Haitink studio, Boult, Davis/BBC, Leppard, Thomson) but not by any means as full-on as the new Manze recording - which is thrilling in its effect, but too much too soon I feel. Even on headphones this organ seems to move huge masses of air in its bottom octave. 
At the climax in the live recording, the Royal Festival Hall organ is the winner, with the two orchestral swells scarcely registering whilst the bottom end of the organ rasps like an old Triumph twin motorcycle.  Then - at the cymbal crash - there is a none-too-subtle rebalancing act and the orchestra comes slightly to the fore sounding, actually, very good.  For Manze, it is the second (post-cymbal) balance that we hear thoughout the climactic episode, so that the orchestral parts are at all times clear to hear.  The organ too sits 'under' the orchestra in terms of tone colour, rather than competing in the middle register.  There is manipulation of course, but in this recording it's a lot more subtly done (to be fair to the BBC engineers, subtle is not always an option when recording live, however much rehearsal time you've had) - in Manze rather than overt gain-riding or compression the entire 'Landscape' movement is presented at slightly lower level, to allow room for the eventual climax - to hear the whole symphony correctly you would need to edge the volume up just a little for the middle movement only.

Offline Oates

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4027 on: May 07, 2019, 12:52:21 AM »
Dutton has just released another RVW CD of barrel-scrapings previously unheard music.

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7359

Richard II: incidental music (1944)
1. Prelude (Lento – Allegro moderato – Andante sostenuto)

2. i Act I scene 1 (Moderato – Harsh)
ii Transition to Act I scene 2 (Allegro – Lento (Foreboding))
iii Transition to Act I scene 3 (Lento – Allegro eroico)

3. i Act I scene 3, flourish for entrance of Richard and attendants (Allegro)
ii Act I scene 3, flourish for entrance of Bolingbroke (Allegro)
iii Act I scene 3, flourish for start of trial (Maestoso)
iv Act I scene 3, flourish for combatants’ charge (Maestoso)
v Act I scene 3, flourish to end trial (Maestoso)
vi Act I scene 3, exit of Richard and attendants (Allegro moderato)

4. i Transition to Act I scene 4 (Lento – Allegro)
ii Transition to Act II scene 1 (Allegro moderato – Lento)
iii Act II scene 1, exit and death of John O’Gaunt (Allegro moderato – Lento)
iv Transition to Act II scene 2 (Allegro – Lento)
v Transition to Act II scene 2 (Moderato)
vi Transition to Act II scene 2 (Moderato)

5. Transition to Act II scene 3 (Lento)
“To beat Bolingbroke back ...” – Bushy

6. Transition to Act II scene 4/Act III scene 1 (Moderato – Lento – Largo)
“Things past redress are now with me past care” – York

7. i Transition to Act III scene 2 (Alla marcia)
ii Transition to Act III scene 3 (Andante sostenuto – Despairing)

8. i Act III scene 3, flourish and entrance of Richard and attendants on the walls (Moderato – Largo – Solemn)
ii Act III scene 3, exit of Richard and attendants (Largo)

9. i Transition to Act III scene 4 (Largo – Andante con moto)
ii Transition to Act IV scene 1 (Agitato – Più lento – Maestoso)
iii Act IV scene 1, entrance of York and Richard (Allegro)
iv Act IV scene 1, exit of Richard (Lento – Poco meno lento)
v Transition to Act IV scene 2 (Moderato – Andante con moto)
“A plot shall sow us a merry day” – Abbot

10. Underscoring and transition to Act V scene 2 (Andante sostenuto – Sorrowful)
“In wooing sorrow let’s be brief” – Richard

11. i Transition to Act V scene 3 (Allegro)
ii Transition from Act V scene 4 to Act V scene 5 (Lento)

12. i Act V scene 5 (Lento) TOM DUNN solo viola
“Music do I hear?” – Richard
ii Act V scene 5, entrance chord of groom

13. Act V scene 5, death of Richard (Andante moderato – Death)

14. Act V scene 6, entrance of Exton and finale (Maestoso)
“High sparks of honour in thee have I seen” – Bolingbroke

Fantasia on Sussex Folk Tunes for cello and orchestra (1929)NR
15. Lento (Salisbury Plain) –
16. Allegro scherzando ma non troppo (The Long Whip) –
17. Andante sostenuto (Low down in the Broom) –
18. Allegro (Bristol Town) –
19. Pesante (I’ve been to France) – Cadenza

Suite de Ballet (ca. 1913)AN
Arranged for flute and string orchestra by Roger Steptoe (1989)
20. i Improvisation (Andante)
21. ii Humoresque (Presto)
22. iii Gavotte (Quasi lento)
23. iv Passepied (Allegro vivacissimo)

Songs of Travel (1901-04)RW
Words: Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-94)
Orchestrated by Ralph Vaughan Williams (1905), except *orchestrated by Roy Douglas (1961-62)
24. The Vagabond (Allegro moderato)
25. Let Beauty Awake (Moderato)*
26. The Roadside Fire (Allegretto)
27. Youth and Love (Andante sostenuto)*
28. In Dreams (Andantino)*
29. The Infinite Shining Heavens (Andante sostenuto)*
30. Whither Must I Wander (Andante)*
31. Bright is the Ring of Words (Moderato risoluto)
32. I Have trod the Upward and the Downward Slope (Andante sostenuto)*

NR NADÈGE ROCHAT cello
AN ANNA NOAKES flute
RW RODERICK WILLIAMS baritone

ROYAL SCOTTISH NATIONAL ORCHESTRA conducted by MARTIN YATES
WORLD PREMIERE RECORDING [Richard II: incidental music]
WORLD PREMIERE RECORDING IN ORCHESTRAL VERSION [Suite de Ballet]

Multi-ch Stereo
All tracks available in stereo and multi-channel

SA-CD
This hybrid CD can be played on any standard CD players

Dutton Epoch is thrilled to present celebrated baritone Roderick Williams in the complete orchestral version of Vaughan Williams’s Songs of Travel. Recorded at the Caird Hall, Dundee, in one remarkable session, everyone present was gripped by the music’s eloquence and impact. Written between the Fifth and Sixth Symphonies, Vaughan Williams’s incidental music for a BBC wartime production of Shakespeare’s Richard II was delivered by the composer in 1944, but went unheard when the production was aborted. This world premiere recording of RVW’s score reveals the composer at the peak of his powers. The Fantasia on Sussex Folk Tunes for cello and orchestra was written for Pablo Casals, and here, in cellist Nadège Rochat’s singing performance, the tunes appear as a succession of musical jewels. The short Suite de Ballet for flute and piano can now be heard in composer Roger Steptoe’s idiomatic 1989 orchestration for flute and strings. Flautist Anna Noakes projects the flute line with fine tone and the strings of the RSNO provide a sumptuous context.


Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4028 on: May 07, 2019, 01:03:44 AM »
Dutton has just released another RVW CD of barrel-scrapings previously unheard music.

This kind of disc makes me twitch.  The completist in me wants to get it, the realist says its minor works you don't really need.  I'll probably wait until 2nd hand copies appear.  Makes me laugh that the 8 Songs of Travel are presented as "orchestrated by RVW except where marked with an *".  Of course Roy Douglas' excellent orchestrations account for 6 of the 8 songs so while the listing is not incorrect it gives a misleading sense of it being mainly RVW orchs....

Certainly the RVW estate seems to have become very keen on just about all/any juvenalia and/or minor works entering the public domain.  With a composer such as RVW who was eminently practical and willing to produce serviceable music to order I'm not sure it always does him great favours.  The early works interest me but mainly to show the long road he trod to find his individual voice.....

Offline Oates

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4029 on: May 07, 2019, 02:55:15 AM »
This kind of disc makes me twitch.  The completist in me wants to get it, the realist says its minor works you don't really need.  I'll probably wait until 2nd hand copies appear.  Makes me laugh that the 8 Songs of Travel are presented as "orchestrated by RVW except where marked with an *".  Of course Roy Douglas' excellent orchestrations account for 6 of the 8 songs so while the listing is not incorrect it gives a misleading sense of it being mainly RVW orchs....

Certainly the RVW estate seems to have become very keen on just about all/any juvenalia and/or minor works entering the public domain.  With a composer such as RVW who was eminently practical and willing to produce serviceable music to order I'm not sure it always does him great favours.  The early works interest me but mainly to show the long road he trod to find his individual voice.....

I must admit that I'm more likely to buy this than (for example) yet another version of the Symphonies - reinterpretation only goes so far for me. I think in the past (certainly by RVW himself, and up until Ursula Vaughan Williams died) there was too censorious an approach. So the market needs 'new' product as well as new 'old' product - the latter is a staple of the classical recording industry. We're happy to buy the same thing many times over.

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4030 on: May 07, 2019, 03:19:27 AM »
This kind of disc makes me twitch.  The completist in me wants to get it, the realist says its minor works you don't really need.  I'll probably wait until 2nd hand copies appear.  Makes me laugh that the 8 Songs of Travel are presented as "orchestrated by RVW except where marked with an *".  Of course Roy Douglas' excellent orchestrations account for 6 of the 8 songs so while the listing is not incorrect it gives a misleading sense of it being mainly RVW orchs....

Certainly the RVW estate seems to have become very keen on just about all/any juvenalia and/or minor works entering the public domain.  With a composer such as RVW who was eminently practical and willing to produce serviceable music to order I'm not sure it always does him great favours.  The early works interest me but mainly to show the long road he trod to find his individual voice.....

My thoughts exactlly. I already have four versions of the Songs of Travel - Christopher Maltman, Bryn Terfel, Anthony Rolfe Johnson (piano) and Thomas Allen (orchestra). Much as I admire Roderick Williams, do I want another set? - especially as I greatly prefer the piano version.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4031 on: May 07, 2019, 07:01:20 AM »
My thoughts exactlly. I already have four versions of the Songs of Travel - Christopher Maltman, Bryn Terfel, Anthony Rolfe Johnson (piano) and Thomas Allen (orchestra). Much as I admire Roderick Williams, do I want another set? - especially as I greatly prefer the piano version.
.

I rather like the orchestral settings - and Tom Allen has for me the perfect voice for this repertoire.  Assuming the Rolfe Johnson disc is this one



it is one of my absolute favourite vocal recital discs and to my mind Rolfe-Johnson's finest recording.  Lovely to hear the Songs of Travel in the tenor/high voice version but the whole programme is simply superb with the most ravishing and disarming version of Gurney's "Down by the Salley Gardens" I know.  So lovely your post prompted me to put it on straight away!

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4032 on: May 07, 2019, 07:29:03 AM »
.

I rather like the orchestral settings - and Tom Allen has for me the perfect voice for this repertoire.  Assuming the Rolfe Johnson disc is this one



it is one of my absolute favourite vocal recital discs and to my mind Rolfe-Johnson's finest recording.  Lovely to hear the Songs of Travel in the tenor/high voice version but the whole programme is simply superb with the most ravishing and disarming version of Gurney's "Down by the Salley Gardens" I know.  So lovely your post prompted me to put it on straight away!

I am sure that is the right album though mine is from EMI Classics (not at home right now to check ). For purists the album of RVW rarities 'The Solent' has just the three 'Songs of Travel' orchestrated by the composer.

Edit: The album I have is a 2 CD set with The House of Life and songs by Ireland, Gurney, Butterworth and Warlock
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 12:53:04 AM by Biffo »

cilgwyn

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4033 on: May 12, 2019, 08:08:37 AM »
I'm thinking I might be in the mood for this,today?!! I've got the Albion restoration of the original broadcast,as well. But,I don't think I'll be playing that today?! I'm not generally keen on music with chin-wagging'. The 70's soul diva,Millie Jackson (no relation to Michael!) of whom I'm a confessed fan,a notable exception! But she doesn't really belong here!! :-\ ;D) But I do like VW's musical response to Bunyan. The words are beautiful,and this is a skilful abridgement of the original play! Quicker than listening to the 'opera';let alone sitting down & reading the book!!
Incidentally,I remember thinking,"If anyone ever releases,the original play on cd,I'll buy it!" I didn't have to wait long,after buying this cd!!


cilgwyn

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4034 on: May 12, 2019, 08:46:14 AM »
Still playing! I must admit,I've switched this cd off before! I'm not,exactly,a fan of Gielgud,either! I like the Boult recording of the Sinfonia Antartica,though;with the spoken  interpolations.Incidentally! Was the Boult recording ever released,on cd,without the yapping?!! Vandermole,may know?!! I am given to understand the,Previn recording,was?!! Hyperion made a good job of this recording,though! I'm quite enjoying it,at the moment! I think it might be more Reger,next?!! ;D

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4035 on: May 12, 2019, 11:58:06 PM »
Still playing! I must admit,I've switched this cd off before! I'm not,exactly,a fan of Gielgud,either! I like the Boult recording of the Sinfonia Antartica,though;with the spoken  interpolations.Incidentally! Was the Boult recording ever released,on cd,without the yapping?!! Vandermole,may know?!! I am given to understand the,Previn recording,was?!! Hyperion made a good job of this recording,though! I'm quite enjoying it,at the moment! I think it might be more Reger,next?!! ;D

Boult recorded Antartica twice; the earlier version had the 'yapping', the second version (ca.1972) was mercifully yap-free. Decca have released the earlier cycle but I haven't heard it. It was possibly me that gave the impression that the CD release of Previn had the recitation removed. My memory was at fault, if you want to hear Sir Ralph solemnly intoning you can but mercifully he is on separate tracks so you can have just the music.

Offline relm1

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4036 on: May 17, 2019, 03:42:44 PM »
To me, this is the quintessential RVW symphony cycle that best embodies his spirit musically.  What say you?

Symphony No. 1   LPO/Haitink
Symphony No. 2   LSO/Hickox (1913 version)
Symphony No. 3   LSO/Previn
Symphony No. 4   LPO/Boult
Symphony No. 5   LSO/Previn
Symphony No. 6   RLPO/Handley
Symphony No. 7   First and Last movement from LSO/Previn, Landscapes from LPO/Boult, rest of movements from BSO/Bakels
Symphony No. 8   LSO/Previn
Symphony No. 9   LSO/Previn
 
To me, RVW is more than the music or the notes, there is an individual soul his music transcends. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 03:45:58 PM by relm1 »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4037 on: May 17, 2019, 10:05:44 PM »
To me, this is the quintessential RVW symphony cycle that best embodies his spirit musically.  What say you?

Symphony No. 1   LPO/Haitink
Symphony No. 2   LSO/Hickox (1913 version)
Symphony No. 3   LSO/Previn
Symphony No. 4   LPO/Boult
Symphony No. 5   LSO/Previn
Symphony No. 6   RLPO/Handley
Symphony No. 7   First and Last movement from LSO/Previn, Landscapes from LPO/Boult, rest of movements from BSO/Bakels
Symphony No. 8   LSO/Previn
Symphony No. 9   LSO/Previn
 
To me, RVW is more than the music or the notes, there is an individual soul his music transcends.
Looks like great choices to me. I'd probably choose a different No.6 (LPO, Boult, Bryden Thomson version as well and I also like Haitink's recording and that of Andrew Davis). I've increasing appreciated the Previn cycle and I'd choose his RCA recording for the 1936 version of A London Symphony and Brabbins for the 1920 version. I listened to Previn's recording of No.9 the other day. I would probably choose a different version as my top choice (Stokowski or Thomson - a fine CD with the Piano Concerto).
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:16:29 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4038 on: May 18, 2019, 12:28:45 AM »
1. Spano (though I'd like to substitute Slatkin for the final movement)
2. totally undecided - any recording EXCEPT Hickox
3. Boult
4. never listen to it
5. Kalmar
6. Davis/BBC
7. undecided - Davis/BBC or Thomson or Manze
8. Thomson
9. Manze

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4039 on: May 18, 2019, 12:34:25 AM »
1. Spano (though I'd like to substitute Slatkin for the final movement)
2. totally undecided - any recording EXCEPT Hickox
3. Boult
4. never listen to it
5. Kalmar
6. Davis/BBC
7. undecided - Davis/BBC or Thomson or Manze
8. Thomson
9. Manze

I haven't heard the Manze yet. They've run out of stock at the distributors  ::)

Which Boult do you mean?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).