Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Roasted Swan]

Other works I didn't notice on Olivier's list are:

Sancta Civitas (perhaps his greatest choral work)
Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus (which VW chose to have performed at his funeral)
Job: A Masque for Dancing
I like the fill-ups on Hickox's CD of Symphony No.5 such as The Pilgrim's Pavement.

As for books, if you can find a copy I'd recommend Roy Douglas's short book 'Working with RVW'. I had the pleasure of having tea with Roy Douglas (who lived to be over 100) as he lived locally.

+1 for all the above although for me the Dona Nobis Pacem pushes Sancta Civitas close and also the G minor Mass is simply transcendent.  The 5 Tudor Portraits is one of my least favourite RVW works.  Just a bit too hale and hearty (even when its being sad!)

[vandermolen]

+1 for all the above although for me the Dona Nobis Pacem pushes Sancta Civitas close and also the G minor Mass is simply transcendent.  The 5 Tudor Portraits is one of my least favourite RVW works.  Just a bit too hale and hearty (even when its being sad!)

Agree about DNP. The Tudor Portraits has grown on me over the years despite its 'Yea Old English Tea Shoppe' aspects which doesn't appeal to me (especially the 'Drunken Alice' section which, like Shakespeare's humour IMO, probably had them rolling in the aisles with laughter in 1603 but leaves me stone cold). However, other sections I like very much. Coincidentally am listening to Symphony No.4 Brabbins, which I don't think you liked very much. I liked the opening movement very much, especially the lyrical treatment of the second subject which gives it a searching, visionary quality which I had not picked up so well in other performances. The performance IMO flags a bit in the middle and I haven't got to the end yet. Not as great a performance as 'A Pastoral Symphony' but I am enjoying this valid take on Symphony No.4  (as I do Neville Marriner's oddly compassionate recording of the 6th Symphony) and I will continue to collect the Brabbins cycle of symphonies.

[Christo]

post of 6th Feb 2020 : have the Handley cycle, Hickox 2 (1913), Sold the Davis cycle... what should I order....

As of today, 22nd Feb 2020...

Received and enjoyed greatly:

- Previn 3-4
- Haitink 7
- Barbirolli 2-8
- Boult EMI (listened and thrilled by 4-6-8-9 so far, others to be listened to yet - the "fillers" I went through mostly in the Collectors edition in this last fortnight and loved them already)
- Mellers book on the reading pile. Looking at Kennedy's and Day's.

on the way:

- Thomson 6
- Thomson 9
- Previn full cycle
- Bakels 5-9

Soon to be bought :

- Thomson 2-3-4-5-8
- Haitink full cycle (sarge's advocacies have a good track record with me in other composers...the slowness would appeal to me i think once I am more familiar with the "normal" versions)

The symphonies are slowing imprinting... 2 with the lento, 3 with the bugler/trumpet, 4 & 6 with the rage and anger, 5 with the tears- inducing romanza, 7 with the chills, 8 & 9... for their mishmash... 

Been going through the full collectors edition as well...

Standout works for far in no particular order : Lark, Serenade to music, Piano Cto (1 piano version), Oboe Concerto, Towards the unknown region, dona Nobis Pacem, Job, Wasps, English Folk songs suite, Tallis, Greensleeves, Norfolk Rhapsody 1, Mass in G minor, Tuba Cto, Wenlock, Fen Country, Ten Blake Songs, Travel songs (piano version), House of Life, concerto Grosso, The Truth from above, Poisoned kiss, Old King Cole...-

Partial misses or dislikes: the string quartets, Violin sonata, most of the hymnal music, Xmas Carols fantasia, mystical songs, Partita for double orchestra, Prelude and Fugue, Romance...plenty yet to go through though.

I've read through most of the 222 pages here and the contributions and knowledge here have been invaluable, thank you. Ralph and I have properly clicked...at last... given the response i have to his music right now, it may head straight for a personal top 5....maybe 3.... now that would be something...

Wonderful, wonderful. Agree very much with Vandermolen (Jeffrey) on the qualities of the 'old' (Decca, mono) Boult recordings. e.g. the Sixth in this reading simply more powerful than the redo for EMI.

As about Symphony no. 6: three winners, for me, clearly stand out: Boult (Decca), Paavo Berglund and the Thompson. Davis very pale in comparison, IMHO. 

[Biffo]

I haven't heard the Boult Decca recording of No 6 but my preference is for his first EMI recording (1949/50) with the LSO. RVW revised the Scherzo after this recording and Boult returned to the studio to record it. The Dutton release has both versions.

[Christo]

I haven't heard the Boult Decca recording of No 6 but my preference is for his first EMI recording (1949/50) with the LSO. RVW revised the Scherzo after this recording and Boult returned to the studio to record it. The Dutton release has both versions.

Me too, that's the one I'm referring at, always confuse the recordings companies (don't have them at hand, here in the Giant's Mountains). The 1949-50 recording it is: glorious.

[vandermolen]

I prefer the old Decca version (LPO not LSO) with VW's speech at the end but that was the first version I ever heard and nothing has quite lived up to it for me.
Agree with Johan (Christo) about the merits of Thompson and Berglund recordings. Abravanel is good too IMO nicely coupled on Vanguard with Dona Nobis Pacem (the LP was my first encounter with the work - purchased in a second hand LP shop in Manchester - as I was on the train about to set off back to London I thought I'd check the condition of the vinyl, only to discover, to me horror, that they had inserted the wrong disc - Schubert's 'Trout Quintet'  and I had to make a dramatic exit from the train). The Vanguard CD below has recently been reissued for around £5.00 which is excellent value.

[Christo]

I prefer the old Decca version (LPO not LSO) with VW's speech at the end but that was the first version I ever heard and nothing has quite lived up to it for me.

That one (you weer all cheating me with details about recording companies and dates I couldn't check nor Czech (beer) here. 😀

[vandermolen]

That one (you weer all cheating me with details about recording companies and dates I couldn't check nor Czech (beer) here. 😀

[vandermolen]

I've dug out an old copy of BBC Music Magazine's 'Top 1000 CDs Guide' (1998 edition) which recommends Bryden Thompson's recording of Symphony No.6. Interestingly it states that:

'Command of the ardour, menace and baleful violence of the first three movements (Andrew Davis, Vernon Handley, Previn) doesn't guarantee ability to sustain the miasmic tension of that Sphinx-like finale, whose undulating, almost expressionless lines convey ultimate elegiac pathos while never rising above pianissimo...Iron discipline in needed in performance, but Slatkin (like Kees Bakels on Naxos) seems to achieve it at the expense of the other movements' tensions. Boult, on mid-price EMI (coupled with Symphony No.4) remains a strong recommendation, though even his finale lacks something. Bryden Thompson, despite the slightly cavernous Chandos sound delivers the most cogent performance of his cycle; the first movement opening is a little ponderous, but from the mechanistic march-rhythms that herald the second group all goes splendidly, and there is a rapt, frozen beauty to the finale.'

I may well have posted this before but can't be bothered to track backwards through the posts. Personally I quite like the cavernous Chandos sound:

[Papy Oli]

Excellent! Quite happy to read that. Vaughan Williams is one of my top 10 composers. I'm glad he's made a positive impact on you too.

Sarge

Cheers Sarge, took its sweet time, didn't it...nice feeling now, though...  0:)

+1
I wonder what Olivier will make of 'Riders to the Sea' and Pilgrim's Progress.

Other works I didn't notice on Olivier's list are:

Sancta Civitas (perhaps his greatest choral work)
Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus (which VW chose to have performed at his funeral)
Job: A Masque for Dancing
I like the fill-ups on Hickox's CD of Symphony No.5 such as The Pilgrim's Pavement.

As for books, if you can find a copy I'd recommend Roy Douglas's short book 'Working with RVW'. I had the pleasure of having tea with Roy Douglas (who lived to be over 100) as he lived locally.

Job is in the + list already, Jeffrey 

The main works I have left to go through properly are : concerto Accademico, Oxford elegy, Santa Civitas, Flos Campi (although enjoyed that one before), Tudor portraits, Dives & Lazarus, Hodie, all the folk songs CDs (enjoyed some before as well), Ephitalamion, Riders to the sea, Hugh the Drover, Sir John in Love, Pilgrim's progress. Plenty to get my teeth into, besides the multiples symphony versions in hand or coming 

Thanks for the rec on Roy Douglas. Will look it up.

Wonderful, wonderful. Agree very much with Vandermolen (Jeffrey) on the qualities of the 'old' (Decca, mono) Boult recordings. e.g. the Sixth in this reading simply more powerful than the redo for EMI.

As about Symphony no. 6: three winners, for me, clearly stand out: Boult (Decca), Paavo Berglund and the Thompson. Davis very pale in comparison, IMHO. 

The Thomson 6 & 9 have landed in the postbox Saturday and today. Will probably listen to those tomorrow.

Re the Boult I, is there a substantial sound improvement between the Belart and the Decca versions (notwithstanding the missing 9th and speech on the Belart - ) as the former is a third of the price of the latter ?

Also, when I look at the cheaper download option of the Decca on AMZ, it sends me to this. that can't be the same remastered version as the Decca set, is it ?

[Mirror Image]

I've dug out an old copy of BBC Music Magazine's 'Top 1000 CDs Guide' (1998 edition) which recommends Bryden Thompson's recording of Symphony No.6. Interestingly it states that:

'Command of the ardour, menace and baleful violence of the first three movements (Andrew Davis, Vernon Handley, Previn) doesn't guarantee ability to sustain the miasmic tension of that Sphinx-like finale, whose undulating, almost expressionless lines convey ultimate elegiac pathos while never rising above pianissimo...Iron discipline in needed in performance, but Slatkin (like Kees Bakels on Naxos) seems to achieve it at the expense of the other movements' tensions. Boult, on mid-price EMI (coupled with Symphony No.4) remains a strong recommendation, though even his finale lacks something. Bryden Thompson, despite the slightly cavernous Chandos sound delivers the most cogent performance of his cycle; the first movement opening is a little ponderous, but from the mechanistic march-rhythms that herald the second group all goes splendidly, and there is a rapt, frozen beauty to the finale.'

I may well have posted this before but can't be bothered to track backwards through the posts. Personally I quite like the cavernous Chandos sound:

Thomson's RVW cycle is fantastic, Jeffrey. Between it and the Previn, I'm at a loss for picking which cycle is my favorite. Thomson is outstanding in the middle symphonies (4-6), but has the absolute best 8th on record, IMHO. Previn's 2nd, 3rd, and 5th remain my references for these symphonies. What would you say are both conductors' strong points in their respective cycles?

[Mirror Image]

Cheers Sarge, took its sweet time, didn't it...nice feeling now, though...  0:)

Job is in the + list already, Jeffrey 

The main works I have left to go through properly are : concerto Accademico, Oxford elegy, Santa Civitas, Flos Campi (although enjoyed that one before), Tudor portraits, Dives & Lazarus, Hodie, all the folk songs CDs (enjoyed some before as well), Ephitalamion, Riders to the sea, Hugh the Drover, Sir John in Love, Pilgrim's progress. Plenty to get my teeth into, besides the multiples symphony versions in hand or coming 

Thanks for the rec on Roy Douglas. Will look it up.

The Thomson 6 & 9 have landed in the postbox Saturday and today. Will probably listen to those tomorrow.

Re the Boult I, is there a substantial sound improvement between the Belart and the Decca versions (notwithstanding the missing 9th and speech on the Belart - ) as the former is a third of the price of the latter ?

Also, when I look at the cheaper download option of the Decca on AMZ, it sends me to this. that can't be the same remastered version as the Decca set, is it ?

Good to see you're getting into RVW, Olivier. I remember you having a bit difficulty earlier on with his music. He's really one of the greats of the 20th Century and, even though I go through long stretches of not listening to any of his music, I still rank him highly. His music stirs my soul.

[Papy Oli]

Good to see you're getting into RVW, Olivier. I remember you having a bit difficulty earlier on with his music. He's really one of the greats of the 20th Century and, even though I go through long stretches of not listening to any of his music, I still rank him highly. His music stirs my soul.

Cheers John, Not only it is great music but I am also enjoying its wide variety.

[Roasted Swan]

Re the Boult I, is there a substantial sound improvement between the Belart and the Decca versions (notwithstanding the missing 9th and speech on the Belart - ) as the former is a third of the price of the latter ?

Also, when I look at the cheaper download option of the Decca on AMZ, it sends me to this. that can't be the same remastered version as the Decca set, is it ?

I have that downloaded version and no it is most definitely not the same mastering as the latest Decca version.  That said for the price the essence of the performances still comes through.  I bought this as a reference because I didn't think it would ever be my go-to/default version (in that opinion of course I may be horribly wrong!)

[vandermolen]

Cheers Sarge, took its sweet time, didn't it...nice feeling now, though...  0:)

Job is in the + list already, Jeffrey 

The main works I have left to go through properly are : concerto Accademico, Oxford elegy, Santa Civitas, Flos Campi (although enjoyed that one before), Tudor portraits, Dives & Lazarus, Hodie, all the folk songs CDs (enjoyed some before as well), Ephitalamion, Riders to the sea, Hugh the Drover, Sir John in Love, Pilgrim's progress. Plenty to get my teeth into, besides the multiples symphony versions in hand or coming 

Thanks for the rec on Roy Douglas. Will look it up.

The Thomson 6 & 9 have landed in the postbox Saturday and today. Will probably listen to those tomorrow.

Re the Boult I, is there a substantial sound improvement between the Belart and the Decca versions (notwithstanding the missing 9th and speech on the Belart - ) as the former is a third of the price of the latter ?

Also, when I look at the cheaper download option of the Decca on AMZ, it sends me to this. that can't be the same remastered version as the Decca set, is it ?

If my memory is correct the Decca pressings are much better than the Belart releases. I have the Belart box set as well. It only features symphonies 1-8 as No.9 was originally released on an American label 'Everest'. Decca got permission to include it in their British Composer's boxed set and restored Boult's speech 'for our American friends' which accompanied the original LP release.
You have to hear 'Epithalamion' Olivier. It is actually one of my favourite VW and ideal late night listening. Johan (Christo) is a fan as well. It is a most poetic work.

[vandermolen]

Thomson's RVW cycle is fantastic, Jeffrey. Between it and the Previn, I'm at a loss for picking which cycle is my favorite. Thomson is outstanding in the middle symphonies (4-6), but has the absolute best 8th on record, IMHO. Previn's 2nd, 3rd, and 5th remain my references for these symphonies. What would you say are both conductors' strong points in their respective cycles?

Well John, let me think.
I think that Previn is unrivalled in A London Symphony, A Pastoral Symphony and Symphony No.8. No.5 is very good as well and I've come to appreciate 6 more in recent years. Thompson is very strong in No.6 and 9. I actually enjoy all of his performances but those two stand out for me as does his LP/CD of Dona Nobis Pacem and Five Mystical Songs:

Thompson also gets my prize for the best cover designs featuring paintings by J.M.W.Turner and a great painting of VW as well:

[Papy Oli]

I have that downloaded version and no it is most definitely not the same mastering as the latest Decca version.  That said for the price the essence of the performances still comes through.  I bought this as a reference because I didn't think it would ever be my go-to/default version (in that opinion of course I may be horribly wrong!)

Thank you for the feedback RS. I'll hang fire for a little while on that Boult I, unless a cheap copy of the actual Decca box comes around. Still need to assimilate Boult II anyway...and the Previn that landed today as well.

[Papy Oli]

If my memory is correct the Decca pressings are much better than the Belart releases. I have the Belart box set as well. It only features symphonies 1-8 as No.9 was originally released on an American label 'Everest'. Decca got permission to include it in their British Composer's boxed set and restored Boult's speech 'for our American friends' which accompanied the original LP release.

Thank you as well, Jeffrey.

You have to hear 'Epithalamion' Olivier. It is actually one of my favourite VW and ideal late night listening. Johan (Christo) is a fan as well. It is a most poetic work.

I'll get to it 

[Christo]

You have to hear 'Epithalamion' Olivier. It is actually one of my favourite VW and ideal late night listening. Johan (Christo) is a fan as well. It is a most poetic work.

Definitely, and agree with many more, here. As about 'Epithalamion', please allow me another repeat mode: stating that I prefer the original version & instrumentation, called 'The Bridal Day', 'a masque for dancing' even more.  Perhaps the most moving 'unknown RVW' I encountered over the last decade, and one of my absolute favourites in his entire oeuvre. Found on this release only:

Parts are on Youtube as well: https://www.youtube.com/v/4-oIhzOBIIQ

[Papy Oli]

Thank Johan, I'll sample that too.

Oxford Elegy and Sancta Civitas didn't work for me (not a fan of narration, like in the former). Flos Campi had some gorgeous moments but too uneven. I remember to have liked it more than I did today. maybe I am having an off day.

Not sure what to make of Five Tudor Portraits right now...