Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 689131 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4740 on: October 19, 2020, 04:20:44 AM »
Your memory of the CFP disc is quite correct.  It reappeared on CD as part of a "Silver-Double" set - awful artwork masking an excellent pair of discs;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-England-Ralph-Vaughan-Williams/dp/B000025VIM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=The+best+of+England&qid=1603108495&s=music&sr=1-1

The 1st disc not only contains the robust Tallis you mention but also the same Prelude & Fugue performance AND one of the great Britten Serenades from Ian Partridge with Nicholas Busch the glorious horn soloist.  Handley's Tippettt Double Concerto completes this disc.  Disc 2 is not quite so distinguished with an OK Britten violin concerto and a so-so Belshazzar from James Loughran and the Halle.  Not awful just not competitive.
+1 I have that nice 'Best of British' set too (I'd forgotten that it included that fine Prelude and Fugue recording as well). The Tippett and VW Tallis are especially good and I recall that the double 'Best of British' CD set was played a great deal here when it first came out, although I agree that disc 1 was preferable to disc 2. I have the old CFP LP as well, with a much better image than those which featured on the Handley RLPO EMI Eminence CDs. These must be about the most inappropriate cover designs anywhere. The cover for the CD featuring Symphony No.4 would be ideal for the front of a box featuring a Cadbury's Milk Tray selection:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 10:13:22 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4098
  • Location: USA
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4741 on: October 19, 2020, 04:49:43 AM »
+1 I have that nice 'Best of British' set too (I'd forgotten that it included that fine Prelude and Fugue recording as well). The Tippett and VW Tallis are especially good and I recall that the double 'Best of British' CD set was played a great deal here when it first came out, although I agree that disc 1 was preferable to disc 2. I have the old CFP LP as well, with a much better image than those which featured on the Handley RLPO EMI Eminence CDs. These must be about the most inappropriate cover designs anywhere. The cover for the CD featuring Symphony No.4 would be ideal for the front of a box featuring a Cadbury's Milk Tray selection:
[/img][/img]
:laugh:  ;D

Is this the BBC MM/Davis CD to which you were referring Jeffrey?  I have it and should revisit it.



PD

Offline Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2430
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4742 on: October 19, 2020, 07:49:05 AM »
+1 I have that nice 'Best of British' set too (I'd forgotten that it included that fine Prelude and Fugue recording as well). The Tippett and VW Tallis are especially good and I recall that the double 'Best of British' CD set was played a great deal here when it first came out, although I agree that disc 1 was preferable to disc 2. I have the old CFP LP as well, with a much better image than those which featured on the Handley RLPO EMI Eminence CDs. These must be about the most inappropriate cover designs anywhere. The cover for the CD featuring Symphony No.4 would be ideal for the front of a box featuring a Cadbury's Milk Tray selection:
[/img][/img]

Agree re EMI Eminence but they upped their game for the later CD reissues on Classics for Pleasure where I find the cover designs not only attractive but also appropriate. The best is the excellent Handley Job - a fabulous CD - which in my opinion is the best on CD or LP. But the symphonies are pretty good too.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4743 on: October 19, 2020, 07:59:52 AM »
:laugh:  ;D

Is this the BBC MM/Davis CD to which you were referring Jeffrey?  I have it and should revisit it.



PD

Yes, indeed PD and in the following issue they printed my letter saying how much I had enjoyed the performance which, I think, is a very fine one.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4744 on: October 19, 2020, 08:03:25 AM »
Agree re EMI Eminence but they upped their game for the later CD reissues on Classics for Pleasure where I find the cover designs not only attractive but also appropriate. The best is the excellent Handley Job - a fabulous CD - which in my opinion is the best on CD or LP. But the symphonies are pretty good too.
Very much agree Lol, both in relation to the cover images and the excellence of Handley's performance of 'Job' which I enjoyed more than any of his RLPO symphony recordings, sound as they are.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2430
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4745 on: October 19, 2020, 01:23:40 PM »
Very much agree Lol, both in relation to the cover images and the excellence of Handley's performance of 'Job' which I enjoyed more than any of his RLPO symphony recordings, sound as they are.

I also like the couplings on Handley's "Job" Jeffrey. The Fantasia comes up fresh and a piece I'm not so familiar with "Dives and Lazarus" is lovely.

You maybe onto something with the RLPO recordings, although I rate the "London". I listened to No.3 this evening, and not for the first time I just cannot seem to engage with this recording. I longed for Boult or Previn.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4746 on: October 19, 2020, 02:32:28 PM »
I also like the couplings on Handley's "Job" Jeffrey. The Fantasia comes up fresh and a piece I'm not so familiar with "Dives and Lazarus" is lovely.

You maybe onto something with the RLPO recordings, although I rate the "London". I listened to No.3 this evening, and not for the first time I just cannot seem to engage with this recording. I longed for Boult or Previn.

Dives and Lazarus is one of my favourite VW works. Barbirolli's is my favourite recording but the Handley is fine as well. For me, those RLPO symphony recordings are all solid, but none of them would be a first choice. Boult, Previn and Thomson would be my first choices for a complete set and they all contain very special recordings, such as Boult's Decca No.6 and 7, Previn's nos 2,3 and 8 (magical) and Thomson's nos 6 and 9.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4747 on: October 20, 2020, 02:01:08 AM »
Dives and Lazarus is one of my favourite VW works. Barbirolli's is my favourite recording but the Handley is fine as well. For me, those RLPO symphony recordings are all solid, but none of them would be a first choice. Boult, Previn and Thomson would be my first choices for a complete set and they all contain very special recordings, such as Boult's Decca No.6 and 7, Previn's nos 2,3 and 8 (magical) and Thomson's nos 6 and 9.

A pity JB never recorded Dives and Lazarus in stereo - just listened to the 1957 mono recording, some of it sounds fine but there are rough patches. My introduction to D&L was Marriner/ASMF, still a favourite though I have acquired several others over the years.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4748 on: October 20, 2020, 02:20:07 AM »
A pity JB never recorded Dives and Lazarus in stereo - just listened to the 1957 mono recording, some of it sounds fine but there are rough patches. My introduction to D&L was Marriner/ASMF, still a favourite though I have acquired several others over the years.
Yes, that's a famous recording as well. My introduction to D&L was the Jacques Orchestra coupled with An Oxford Elegy and Flos Campi on LP. Actually, on second thoughts, I first heard it when I took out Barbirolli's LP also featuring Rubbra's 5th Symphony and VW's Oboe Concerto. That was a great disc as it introduced me to Rubbra's music.
[/img]
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 02:22:30 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Oates

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Carnforth, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4749 on: October 22, 2020, 11:15:50 AM »

I've just enjoyed watching British Transport Films' The Scene from Melbury House (1972) (lovely on blu-ray) which makes inventive use of the London Symphony throughout, set to contemporary footage of London shot from the roof of the said building. BFI says "The material was then composed into a shape not inappropriate to its musical accompaniment, drawn from the London Symphony of Ralph Vaughan Williams – who was also a neighbour and a friend of the unit."

Can be seen here:

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-scene-from-melbury-house-1973-online


Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4750 on: October 23, 2020, 09:43:42 AM »
I've just enjoyed watching British Transport Films' The Scene from Melbury House (1972) (lovely on blu-ray) which makes inventive use of the London Symphony throughout, set to contemporary footage of London shot from the roof of the said building. BFI says "The material was then composed into a shape not inappropriate to its musical accompaniment, drawn from the London Symphony of Ralph Vaughan Williams – who was also a neighbour and a friend of the unit."

Can be seen here:

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-scene-from-melbury-house-1973-online
Interesting and a bit of a nostalgia trip for someone who grew up in Central London. 1972 was the VW Centenary year and just after I fell in love with his music (aged 16/17) . Nice to see those scenes from my youth with Battersea Power Station in full swing etc. I'm not sure, however, about the marrying up of the music to the visuals. I thought that, at the end, the closing section of A London Symphony could have worked very well with the sun going down over the city but that section was not accompanied by any music at all. Thanks for posting it though.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Oates

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Carnforth, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4751 on: October 24, 2020, 05:54:08 AM »
 I agree with about the aptness of the visuals. The symphony evokes a very different London for me. It's a case of seeing what other people hear in a piece of music, and my own imagination usually conjures up something very different. I remember seeing the Ken Russell / South Bank Show on Vaughan Williams and (if I remember correctly) he had the Pastoral Symphony set to army tank manoeuvres on Salisbury Plain. I know this is referred to as a war symphony but it didn't work for me at all (and I'm usually a Ken Russell fan). 

Online Biffo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4752 on: October 24, 2020, 06:27:24 AM »
Interesting and a bit of a nostalgia trip for someone who grew up in Central London. 1972 was the VW Centenary year and just after I fell in love with his music (aged 16/17) . Nice to see those scenes from my youth with Battersea Power Station in full swing etc. I'm not sure, however, about the marrying up of the music to the visuals. I thought that, at the end, the closing section of A London Symphony could have worked very well with the sun going down over the city but that section was not accompanied by any music at all. Thanks for posting it though.

Nostalgic for me too, I moved to London in September 1973, it brought back all sorts of memories.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4753 on: October 24, 2020, 07:57:36 AM »
I agree with about the aptness of the visuals. The symphony evokes a very different London for me. It's a case of seeing what other people hear in a piece of music, and my own imagination usually conjures up something very different. I remember seeing the Ken Russell / South Bank Show on Vaughan Williams and (if I remember correctly) he had the Pastoral Symphony set to army tank manoeuvres on Salisbury Plain. I know this is referred to as a war symphony but it didn't work for me at all (and I'm usually a Ken Russell fan).

Yes, you're right about the Ken Russell film, which I rather enjoyed. Ken Russell seemed most concerned about the arrival of the 'Beaujolais Nouvelle' if my memory serves me well and yes it did involve tanks on Salisbury Plain. However, the visuals accompanying the Ninth Symphony (David Mcfall's extraordinary bronze portrait head  of VW for example) were  much more appropriate that the crass choice of the 'Oh Thou Transcendant' documentary (which was otherwise excellent) to accompany the Ninth Symphony with images of starving and emaciated children in Biafra and other war zones. It was as completely inappropriate as the Cadbury's Milk Tray designs which accompanied the EMI Eminence series of VW symphonies. Ken Russell's film about the short lived sculptor Gaudier Brzeska ('Savage Messiah') was my favourite of his films although 'The Music Lovers' was a guilty pleasure as well. I wish that the VW documentary was available on You Tube or DVD. Oddly, for Ken Russell, it was rather less pretentious than some of the other VW documentaries that I have seen.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 07:59:37 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Roasted Swan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1107
  • Location: UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4754 on: October 24, 2020, 12:59:31 PM »
Earlier today I listened to this disc;



which of course includes the Jacques/Five Varients Vandermolen mentioned.  Five Tudor Portraits is probably the large-scale RVW work I listen to LEAST and I put this disc on for the couplings - the Benedicite and the Variants.  But I actually really enjoyed the Portraits this time!  This recording for all its age is very fine.  Bainbridge is lovely in the soprano solos and Carol Case is good although I always find his voice a bit watery.  I prefer more muscular baritones - Allen/Shirley Quirk/Luxon from this period do it for me.  Apart from some tape hiss the actual production of this piece works very well indeed.  The complex and detailed score registers well and the Bach Choir sound full voiced and immediate.  It really is one of RVW's most overtly colourful scores.  Again, I'd forgotten what extended use he makes of the Dies Irae in the Romanza/Lament movement which does have the finest music of the work.  The Benedicite was equally uplifting and all rounded off by the beautiful balm of the Variants (I have in my own library of orchestral music Reginald Jacques' sets for the Holst St. Pauls and Brook Green Suites which gives me a disproportionate amount of pleasure!)

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4755 on: October 24, 2020, 01:10:42 PM »
Earlier today I listened to this disc;



which of course includes the Jacques/Five Varients Vandermolen mentioned.  Five Tudor Portraits is probably the large-scale RVW work I listen to LEAST and I put this disc on for the couplings - the Benedicite and the Variants.  But I actually really enjoyed the Portraits this time!  This recording for all its age is very fine.  Bainbridge is lovely in the soprano solos and Carol Case is good although I always find his voice a bit watery.  I prefer more muscular baritones - Allen/Shirley Quirk/Luxon from this period do it for me.  Apart from some tape hiss the actual production of this piece works very well indeed.  The complex and detailed score registers well and the Bach Choir sound full voiced and immediate.  It really is one of RVW's most overtly colourful scores.  Again, I'd forgotten what extended use he makes of the Dies Irae in the Romanza/Lament movement which does have the finest music of the work.  The Benedicite was equally uplifting and all rounded off by the beautiful balm of the Variants (I have in my own library of orchestral music Reginald Jacques' sets for the Holst St. Pauls and Brook Green Suites which gives me a disproportionate amount of pleasure!)
That CD has grown on me over the years and I too now enjoy the Tudor Portrait. The Benedicte and the moving Jacques Orchestra version of Dives and Lazarus was the icing on the cake.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2430
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4756 on: October 25, 2020, 02:04:07 AM »


The one RVW work that I dislike, which is annoying as the setting for The Tunning of Elinor Rumming, The Running Horse public house is a short walk from where I live. The pub is unspoilt and has a plaque in memory of Elinor Rumming in the main bar. Perhaps one day, like RS, the penny will drop. If it does I will enjoy a celebration pint in the Running Horse and raise a glass to RVW.  :P
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Online Biffo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2336
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4757 on: October 25, 2020, 02:14:40 AM »
I have enjoyed Five Tudor Portraits ever since I acquired the Willcocks performance on LP as part of a box set of RVW choral works. Admittedly, I have listened to the Romanza separately more often than the complete work.

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4758 on: October 25, 2020, 04:55:01 AM »
I have enjoyed Five Tudor Portraits ever since I acquired the Willcocks performance on LP as part of a box set of RVW choral works. Admittedly, I have listened to the Romanza separately more often than the complete work.
For decades I never listened to it but now rather enjoy it, although I find the creaking humour of the 'Drunken Alice' section rather twee and tedious. However, I'm sure that they were rolling in the isles in 1603 or whenever.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19160
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4759 on: October 25, 2020, 04:55:33 AM »
I have enjoyed Five Tudor Portraits ever since I acquired the Willcocks performance on LP as part of a box set of RVW choral works. Admittedly, I have listened to the Romanza separately more often than the complete work.
For decades I never listened to it but now rather enjoy it, although I find the creaking humour of the 'Drunken Alice' section rather twee and tedious. However, I'm sure that they were rolling in the aisles in 1603 or whenever. Nice to hear that Lol drinks in the Running Horse, perhaps he could arrange a re-enactment of the 'Drunken Alice' section.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 04:57:17 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).