Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 719437 times)

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Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4940 on: December 31, 2020, 06:41:05 AM »
Enjoyed both rather recent Dutton releases with 'unknown' incidental music, this year. Especially the music for The Blue Bird (1913) is fine, IMHO:

… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4941 on: January 11, 2021, 11:54:01 AM »
A pretty interesting video on the 5th symphony:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/9S35rjq1ZyM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/9S35rjq1ZyM</a>
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4942 on: January 12, 2021, 01:34:07 AM »
A pretty interesting video on the 5th symphony:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/9S35rjq1ZyM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/9S35rjq1ZyM</a>

Excellent, John. Thanks for bringing to our attention.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4943 on: January 12, 2021, 03:36:53 AM »
Excellent, John. Thanks for bringing to our attention.
+1 Enjoyed it!

PD

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4944 on: January 12, 2021, 07:09:31 AM »
+1 Enjoyed it!

PD
Me too, largely well-known facts, but put into a convincing argument for the music's greatness.  :)
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4945 on: January 12, 2021, 08:12:26 AM »
Excellent, John. Thanks for bringing to our attention.

+1 Enjoyed it!

PD

Me too, largely well-known facts, but put into a convincing argument for the music's greatness.  :)

I’m glad you all enjoyed it! I haven’t finished watching it, but I will (probably during lunchtime).
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4946 on: February 04, 2021, 03:46:47 PM »
I really love the Pastoral Symphony. I reckon it's his greatest work, or at least the one which speaks to me the most directly.

I only have one recording, albeit a very good one: André Previn with the London Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. What are some other great recordings of the work?

Offline Benji

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4947 on: February 04, 2021, 04:24:23 PM »
I really love the Pastoral Symphony. I reckon it's his greatest work, or at least the one which speaks to me the most directly.

I only have one recording, albeit a very good one: André Previn with the London Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. What are some other great recordings of the work?

It's an easy piece to fall for in a big way; so very heartfelt.

I really liked the more recent recording with the Hallé and Mark Elder... Except for the last movement. They made a bad choice with the soprano, she's just too heavy handed and it is such a shame. Otherwise it might be my first choice but now I have to swap to a different recording for the finale. I like the Previn one too.

Offline DavidW

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4948 on: February 04, 2021, 04:37:07 PM »
I like Sir Adrian Boult, the stereo recording.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4949 on: February 04, 2021, 07:19:44 PM »
I really love the Pastoral Symphony. I reckon it's his greatest work, or at least the one which speaks to me the most directly.

I only have one recording, albeit a very good one: André Previn with the London Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. What are some other great recordings of the work?

Maybe a bit controversial choice but I happen to like the Haitink version. Slow, atmospheric, and dark with a lot of detail. Reminds me of a Caspar David Friedrich painting - probably not what VW was aiming for, but I like it anyway.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4950 on: February 04, 2021, 11:50:23 PM »
I really love the Pastoral Symphony. I reckon it's his greatest work, or at least the one which speaks to me the most directly.

I only have one recording, albeit a very good one: André Previn with the London Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. What are some other great recordings of the work?

Michael Kennedy, the writer and friend of VW considered it to be his greatest work. Much as I admire it I prefer Nos. 2,5,6 and 9. Previn's is my favourite but I also enjoyed the Elder performance. I must give the Haitink another listen to. I was interested in vers la flamme's Caspar David Friedrich observation as he is one of my favourite painters. VW himself said that he'd been inspired by a 'Corot-like landscape' when he was on war service in France.
Here's a Corot landscape!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 06:42:24 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline DavidW

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4951 on: February 05, 2021, 06:39:25 AM »
Maybe a bit controversial choice but I happen to like the Haitink version. Slow, atmospheric, and dark with a lot of detail. Reminds me of a Caspar David Friedrich painting - probably not what VW was aiming for, but I like it anyway.

I think that Haitink's RVW is in general underappreciated.  At least at Classics Today!

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4952 on: February 05, 2021, 06:48:20 AM »
I think that Haitink's RVW is in general underappreciated.  At least at Classics Today!
Here too I think. I recall that No.2 'London' and 7 'Antartica' were very well reviewed when they first appeared. I recall thinking that No.6 was one of the (IMO comparatively few) successful recordings. Listening to Haitink's 'A Sea Symphony' made that work come alive and it remains my favourite recording.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline DavidW

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4953 on: February 05, 2021, 08:54:30 AM »
Listening to Haitink's 'A Sea Symphony' made that work come alive and it remains my favourite recording.

Oh wow same here!

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4954 on: February 05, 2021, 11:55:24 AM »
I remember at the time (way back when....) narrowing down people's suggestions (as to what my first boxed set of VW symphonies should be) to either Handley or Haitink and went for the Haitink.  Haven't played them in some time, but do recall enjoying them!

Offline Herman

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4955 on: March 16, 2021, 01:43:46 AM »
I knew he hated hated hated the Haitink cycle, so that wasn't a surprise to me. Personally I have Haitink's 3/4 and find it superior to Slatkin's 3/4, the latter being his favorite cycle. Different strokes and all that.


In the youtube his main argument against Haitink seems to be that UK critics liked the Haitink cycle because Haitink is non-British, which is a 100% specious argument.

It could have been easily the other way around. Also, Haitink lives in the UK, is married to a britishwoman and his orchestra is British.

Nr 1 no no for a critic is to attack other critics.

Offline DavidW

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4956 on: March 16, 2021, 08:22:34 AM »
Oh that's peculiar since DH always praises Slatkin's take on the symphonies, and Slatkin is American.  DH trying to read into the motivations of other critics is foolishly arrogant.  The same argument could have then be used against DH saying that oh you only like Slatkin because of your American-centric prejudice!  Which is probably not true, which is the point.

Offline relm1

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4957 on: March 16, 2021, 04:13:25 PM »
I think that Haitink's RVW is in general underappreciated.  At least at Classics Today!

I think it's inconsistent.  It is Fantastic, great, mediocre sometimes.  That's its achilles heal.  When it's great, it really is great.  But it isn't always that good.  Boult and Previn are consistently good but might not ever rise to fantastic.  Conductors evolve over time.  Previn 1960's to 70's is superior to Previn 1980's.  Boult was better in the 40's to 50's than 60's to 70's (sorry going off memory but the earlier cycle than the later cycle).  Well, what if a conductor takes decades to record a cycle? With Haitink, it is clear his earlier recordings were far supperior to his later ones.  I literally heard 8 and 9 (the last recording) while reading the score and he ignored dynamics, phrasing, tempo, or didn't care about it.  Some will argue the conductor is always right, but which conductor?  RVW music was better than what was recorded in some cases from Haitink.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 04:23:11 PM by relm1 »

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4958 on: March 18, 2021, 01:41:14 AM »
I think it's inconsistent.  It is Fantastic, great, mediocre sometimes.  That's its achilles heal.  When it's great, it really is great.  But it isn't always that good.  Boult and Previn are consistently good but might not ever rise to fantastic.  Conductors evolve over time.  Previn 1960's to 70's is superior to Previn 1980's.  Boult was better in the 40's to 50's than 60's to 70's (sorry going off memory but the earlier cycle than the later cycle).  Well, what if a conductor takes decades to record a cycle? With Haitink, it is clear his earlier recordings were far supperior to his later ones.  I literally heard 8 and 9 (the last recording) while reading the score and he ignored dynamics, phrasing, tempo, or didn't care about it.  Some will argue the conductor is always right, but which conductor?  RVW music was better than what was recorded in some cases from Haitink.

I take it you mean by evolving they get worse? I agree with you on Previn as his tenure at the LSO was ground-breaking and he showed more then a few British conductors how English music along with Prokofiev, Shostakovich and many more should be performed. I collected his records with enthusiasm, but came to the conclusion that after that heady period neither Previn or the LSO were quite the same after going their separate ways.
Boult on the other hand I admire the wisdom he brings to the table during his Indian summer. His Decca recordings of RVW are more vibrant but I prefer the insights and experience of the later EMI set. Both Previn on RCA and Boult on EMI are for me the last word on RVW.
I have only one Haitink recording, the Antartica. Good without being overwhelmed.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline relm1

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4959 on: March 18, 2021, 06:03:06 AM »
I take it you mean by evolving they get worse? I agree with you on Previn as his tenure at the LSO was ground-breaking and he showed more then a few British conductors how English music along with Prokofiev, Shostakovich and many more should be performed. I collected his records with enthusiasm, but came to the conclusion that after that heady period neither Previn or the LSO were quite the same after going their separate ways.
Boult on the other hand I admire the wisdom he brings to the table during his Indian summer. His Decca recordings of RVW are more vibrant but I prefer the insights and experience of the later EMI set. Both Previn on RCA and Boult on EMI are for me the last word on RVW.
I have only one Haitink recording, the Antartica. Good without being overwhelmed.

I didn't really mean "evolve" means devolve or get worse.  Just that there can be a major shift from their youthful interpretations and their elderly interpretations.  I seem to generally prefer the youthful ones.  For example, with Lennie Bernstein, MTT, Previn, Haitink, Jarvi, etc., I prefer their younger, more fiery interpretations of repertoire than their elderly more vast and slower interpretations.  If a conductor takes 30 or 40 years to produce a cycle, it will probably be quite different throughout.  It's just a personal preference because the same could be said about composers.  And yes, I am generalizing, there are exceptions, but it's just a general rule.  I would prefer the earlier mono Boult over the later EMI stereo one for instance but on a symphony by symphony basis, that might not be the case.  I prefer Bernstein's NYPO 1960's Mahler cycle over the DG cycle, etc.