Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[vandermolen]

Last three posts are v interesting and informative - thanks.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Thanks for that clarification. I have the First Edition (Paperback Edition, 1971).

That makes sense then. 

PD

And that is why I find it quite brutal for a concert organisation/orchestra to use those words.

Wikipedia mentiones :
"....an  inscription (from  The Pilgrim's Progress') was omitted from the published score in accordance with the composer's wish that the symphony should be regarded as absolute music."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._5_(Vaughan_Williams)

Thanks for that link! 

PD

[aukhawk]

I had always assumed that Michael Kennedy (who I have met) and Nigel Kennedy (who I have seen in concert playing Elgar VC) were closely related - but apparently not.  My mistake.

[Herman]

And that is why I find it quite brutal for a concert organisation/orchestra to use those words.

My guess is the marketing people in Flanders decided more people would come if the symphony had a title.

On the continent RVW is not a big name.

[vandermolen]

My guess is the marketing people in Flanders decided more people would come if the symphony had a title.

On the continent RVW is not a big name.

In an Austrian CD shop years ago, I found a large section devoted to the music of Benjamin Britten and no VW at all.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

My guess is the marketing people in Flanders decided more people would come if the symphony had a title.

On the continent RVW is not a big name.

In an Austrian CD shop years ago, I found a large section devoted to the music of Benjamin Britten and no VW at all.

  Do you remember about how long ago this was Jeffrey?

In any event, I would have thought that this would have changed by now?

PD

[Irons]

In an Austrian CD shop years ago, I found a large section devoted to the music of Benjamin Britten and no VW at all.

My take is Britten is, or was, popular in East Europe - quite a few Britten recordings on the Czech Supraphon label and RVW popular in US. This possibly reflects the political leanings of both composers. Arguably the most famous English composer, Elgar, is a bit of a home bird and doesn't travel well.

[vandermolen]

  Do you remember about how long ago this was Jeffrey?

In any event, I would have thought that this would have changed by now?

PD

2008 PD - I just found this email from the time to my brother's music-loving brother in law:

'We have been away in Austria for a week, so just found your nice message. I managed to sneak into a CD shop in Kitzbuhel and bought Furtwangler conducting Bruckner's 7th Symphony (Cairo 1951)'

I think that VW is mainly popular in Britain and the USA. I remember working at the W H Smith record dept as my Saturday job when I was at school. I would play VW whenever I was alone in the dept and I still remember a young Spanish man come over to me to ask what I was playing as he liked it so much. I guess that it's a question of having the opportunity to hear it in the first place.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

2008 PD - I just found this email from the time to my brother's music-loving brother in law:

'We have been away in Austria for a week, so just found your nice message. I managed to sneak into a CD shop in Kitzbuhel and bought Furtwangler conducting Bruckner's 7th Symphony (Cairo 1951)'

I think that VW is mainly popular in Britain and the USA. I remember working at the W H Smith record dept as my Saturday job when I was at school. I would play VW whenever I was alone in the dept and I still remember a young Spanish man come over to me to ask what I was playing as he liked it so much. I guess that it's a question of having the opportunity to hear it in the first place.

Ah, proselytizing at a young age I see!      Good for you! 

Hopefully things are changing.

PD

[Mirror Image]

My dad listened to A London Symphony yesterday (the Rozhdestvensky recording) and said he loved it. I believe he also mentioned this is the first-time he's ever heard this symphony, which was kind of surprising since he loves much of this composer's work. Of course, I love it, too. I should revisit A London Symphony as its been quite some time since I heard it. I might listen to the Boult EMI (Warner) performance.

[vandermolen]

My dad listened to A London Symphony yesterday (the Rozhdestvensky recording) and said he loved it. I believe he also mentioned this is the first-time he's ever heard this symphony, which was kind of surprising since he loves much of this composer's work. Of course, I love it, too. I should revisit A London Symphony as its been quite some time since I heard it. I might listen to the Boult EMI (Warner) performance.

I love it as well. It was VW's own favourite (at least of his first eight symphonies). When I first became obsessed with VW as a teenager I listened to Boult's EMI recording over and over again. I wonder what your dad would think of the 1913 or 1920 version. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on the extended, poetic section at the end which VW (mistakenly IMO) excised in 1936.

[Mirror Image]

I love it as well. It was VW's own favourite (at least of his first eight symphonies). When I first became obsessed with VW as a teenager I listened to Boult's EMI recording over and over again. I wonder what your dad would think of the 1913 or 1920 version. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on the extended, poetic section at the end which VW (mistakenly IMO) excised in 1936.

Sorry for the late reply, Jeffrey, but my dad said that it didn't make much of a difference what version he listened to of A London Symphony because he said whichever version he was listening to at that moment was his favorite. Now I know where I get my indecisiveness from!

[vandermolen]

Sorry for the late reply, Jeffrey, but my dad said that it didn't make much of a difference what version he listened to of A London Symphony because he said whichever version he was listening to at that moment was his favorite. Now I know where I get my indecisiveness from!

Haha - very nice John.
I find that if I listen to the 1936 version, which I do from time-to-time, I'm acutely aware of that 'missing' section just before the end which rather spoils my enjoyment of that moving closing section, as night comes down over London again. My favourite recordings of the final version of A London Symphony are those conducted by Previn (RCA), Barbirolli (EMI) and Boult (EMI). The Boult version was the one that I 'grew up' with, first discovering it aged 17.

[Mirror Image]

Haha - very nice John.
I find that if I listen to the 1936 version, which I do from time-to-time, I'm acutely aware of that 'missing' section just before the end which rather spoils my enjoyment of that moving closing section, as night comes down over London again. My favourite recordings of the final version of A London Symphony are those conducted by Previn (RCA), Barbirolli (EMI) and Boult (EMI). The Boult version was the one that I 'grew up' with, first discovering it aged 17.

I personally don't find myself missing any of the music that was cut out of it. The main reasoning is the final revised version is the one I cut my teeth on, so for me to hear the original version with this 'extra' music I hadn't heard before makes for a strange listening experience --- not that I completely dislike it of course. Also, RVW felt it was necessary to revise this symphony, so who am I do disagree with his decision? But there are three versions of A London Symphony to choose from and, ultimately, a listener has to make up their own mind as which version they prefer. Like you, the Boult on EMI was the first one I've heard and I still have a special affection for it. I will say that of all the recent releases of RVW that the Brabbins recording of the 1920 version of this symphony was simply outstanding in every possible way. I also loved that coupling Variations for brass band, which was a new work for me.

[Karl Henning]

Sorry for the late reply, Jeffrey, but my dad said that it didn't make much of a difference what version he listened to of A London Symphony because he said whichever version he was listening to at that moment was his favorite. Now I know where I get my indecisiveness from!

(* chortle *)

[vandermolen]

I personally don't find myself missing any of the music that was cut out of it. The main reasoning is the final revised version is the one I cut my teeth on, so for me to hear the original version with this 'extra' music I hadn't heard before makes for a strange listening experience --- not that I completely dislike it of course. Also, RVW felt it was necessary to revise this symphony, so who am I do disagree with his decision? But there are three versions of A London Symphony to choose from and, ultimately, a listener has to make up their own mind as which version they prefer. Like you, the Boult on EMI was the first one I've heard and I still have a special affection for it. I will say that of all the recent releases of RVW that the Brabbins recording of the 1920 version of this symphony was simply outstanding in every possible way. I also loved that coupling Variations for brass band, which was a new work for me.

+1 for the Brabbins recording of 'A London Symphony' (1920). That series has been great and far preferable IMO to the ones from Manze, Elder or the dreary Norrington releases.

[Mirror Image]

+1 for the Brabbins recording of 'A London Symphony' (1920). That series has been great and far preferable IMO to the ones from Manze, Elder or the dreary Norrington releases.

Oh, those Manze recordings are just terrible --- devoid of passion and unexciting. I bought the first volume of that series, which was A London Symphony and Symphony No. 8 and never bothered to get the rest. Elder has only had one great success in RVW and that was A Pastoral Symphony. In fact, that whole disc is top-drawer. Its a shame the rest of his performances didn't live up to this one recording. It seems that the myriad of styles and musical temperaments that RVW worked with didn't quite come across as as successfully as his Elgar recordings.

[vandermolen]

Oh, those Manze recordings are just terrible --- devoid of passion and unexciting. I bought the first volume of that series, which was A London Symphony and Symphony No. 8 and never bothered to get the rest. Elder has only had one great success in RVW and that was A Pastoral Symphony. In fact, that whole disc is top-drawer. Its a shame the rest of his performances didn't live up to this one recording. It seems that the myriad of styles and musical temperaments that RVW worked with didn't quite come across as as successfully as his Elgar recordings.

Yes, you are right about Elder's 'A Pastoral Symphony' John and that symphony was imo the best of the Norrington releases as well.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, you are right about Elder's 'A Pastoral Symphony' John and that symphony was imo the best of the Norrington releases as well.

I never listened to the Norrington performances, but I know I'm not missing anything as he's not a conductor I'm impressed with generally.

[Roasted Swan]

I never listened to the Norrington performances, but I know I'm not missing anything as he's not a conductor I'm impressed with generally.

I'm usually front and centre of the queue to "knock Norrington".  But I have to say I found his RVW Symphonies much better than I was expecting.  Helped by very fine Decca recording.   I enjoyed his Serenade to Music as well - a genuinely stellar line-up of British singers.