Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 857192 times)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5520 on: May 11, 2022, 07:47:01 AM »
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5521 on: May 11, 2022, 07:55:56 AM »
From WAYLTN thread:
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No.5 BBC SO, Boult
Just arrived (5 minutes ago). It sounds like a wonderful performance, rather sibelian and urgent - very moving. Having heard this work live in concert last Sunday makes this even more special for me. On the basis of the first few minutes I can honestly say that I have never been gripped  as much as I have by this recording of the 5th Symphony (Royal Albert Hall Concert 1975 Proms) My youthful self could have been there:

« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 08:00:13 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

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Offline Leo K.

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5522 on: May 13, 2022, 12:12:30 PM »
From WAYLTN thread:
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No.5 BBC SO, Boult
Just arrived (5 minutes ago). It sounds like a wonderful performance, rather sibelian and urgent - very moving. Having heard this work live in concert last Sunday makes this even more special for me. On the basis of the first few minutes I can honestly say that I have never been gripped  as much as I have by this recording of the 5th Symphony (Royal Albert Hall Concert 1975 Proms) My youthful self could have been there:


Looks fantastic. Also, think it's time for another listen to the 5th symphony! (All I have is Previn at the moment :) )

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5523 on: May 15, 2022, 05:28:47 AM »
From WAYLTN thread:
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No.5 BBC SO, Boult
Just arrived (5 minutes ago). It sounds like a wonderful performance, rather sibelian and urgent - very moving. Having heard this work live in concert last Sunday makes this even more special for me. On the basis of the first few minutes I can honestly say that I have never been gripped  as much as I have by this recording of the 5th Symphony (Royal Albert Hall Concert 1975 Proms) My youthful self could have been there:


Jeffrey, I listened to this performance of the 5th with Boult/BBC SO and I have to say I thought the first, second and final movements were quite good, indeed. Where the performance doesn't do much for me is the Romanza. This is one of the worst performances I've heard. It's completely rushed, lacks nuance and is devoid of any kind of emotion. I love this movement so much and believe it to be the centerpiece of the entire symphony. I mean this movement essentially represents his love for Ursula or, at least, this is what I believe as around this time he couldn't get her out of his mind I'm sure. I haven't listened to the performance of the 6th, but this is a symphony I have always liked Boult in, so hopefully, it'll go better.
“I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.” - Gustav Mahler

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5524 on: May 15, 2022, 05:30:13 AM »
Looks fantastic. Also, think it's time for another listen to the 5th symphony! (All I have is Previn at the moment :) )

Excellent! Previn with the LSO on RCA remains my reference for this symphony.
“I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.” - Gustav Mahler

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5525 on: May 16, 2022, 06:31:43 AM »
From WAYLTN thread:
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No.5 BBC SO, Boult
Just arrived (5 minutes ago). It sounds like a wonderful performance, rather sibelian and urgent - very moving. Having heard this work live in concert last Sunday makes this even more special for me. On the basis of the first few minutes I can honestly say that I have never been gripped  as much as I have by this recording of the 5th Symphony (Royal Albert Hall Concert 1975 Proms) My youthful self could have been there:


I don't know this Boult/RVW 5 (the No.6 performance has previously turned up on a couple of CD's including a BBC Music Magazine cover disc).  But your comment regarding the urgency of the performance is interesting.  All too often Boult is/was too easily dismissed as a rather patrician (possibly dull) conductor who in his lifetime was rather taken for granted.  The other easily repeated assumption is that his performances are a bit heavy/solid etc etc.  Of course digging down into this proves that these are unfounded.  Many of Boult's finest performance are wonderfully direct and urgent.  For sure his later Elgar discs do have a rather grander pace but they are by no means "slow" but go back into his earlier discography and many recordings are in fact at the faster end of an average range of timings/tempi

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5526 on: May 16, 2022, 06:39:17 AM »
Jeffrey, I listened to this performance of the 5th with Boult/BBC SO and I have to say I thought the first, second and final movements were quite good, indeed. Where the performance doesn't do much for me is the Romanza. This is one of the worst performances I've heard. It's completely rushed, lacks nuance and is devoid of any kind of emotion. I love this movement so much and believe it to be the centerpiece of the entire symphony. I mean this movement essentially represents his love for Ursula or, at least, this is what I believe as around this time he couldn't get her out of his mind I'm sure. I haven't listened to the performance of the 6th, but this is a symphony I have always liked Boult in, so hopefully, it'll go better.
Interesting to hear you views John. I haven't listened to No.6 yet and might wait until my CD player is repaired (I'm using a Sony portable at the moment  :-X). Two underrated performances of No.5 are under Marriner and Thomson, both of which I have enjoyed greatly recently. BBC Record Review chose Haitink as the No. one choice for Symphony No.4 this week.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5527 on: May 18, 2022, 01:33:07 AM »
New releases:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5528 on: May 18, 2022, 01:53:59 AM »
New releases:



Thanks for the tip-off, let's hope Elder is back on form after the disappointing disc of Nos 4 & 6

Offline foxandpeng

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5529 on: May 18, 2022, 01:59:25 AM »
New releases:



For me, this is a welcome release - I've enjoyed the Elder performances very much. I know they won't become an essential addition to the repertoire because of the standard of releases already in existence from others, but each time I've listened, I've been glad that I did.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5530 on: May 18, 2022, 10:24:01 AM »
Elder's RVW has been a huge disappointment for me. Only the Pastoral Symphony (w/ it's couplings) has impressed me. Brabbins, on the other hand, has been rather more up my alley and I hope he's able to finish his cycle --- he's got the 6th through the 9th to go and this could be dragged out for a few years.
“I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.” - Gustav Mahler

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5531 on: May 18, 2022, 01:07:41 PM »
Thanks for the tip-off, let's hope Elder is back on form after the disappointing disc of Nos 4 & 6
Yes, I agree. Like John (MI) I liked 'A Pastoral Symphony'. I might not be able to resist the disc featuring 7 and 9. I like the graphics on the cover of the boxed set.
Incidentally the boxed set (On Amazon UK) is c.£30.00 whereas the double CD set of 7 and 9 is c.£20.00.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 01:12:57 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5532 on: May 18, 2022, 01:14:18 PM »
Elder's RVW has been a huge disappointment for me. Only the Pastoral Symphony (w/ it's couplings) has impressed me. Brabbins, on the other hand, has been rather more up my alley and I hope he's able to finish his cycle --- he's got the 6th through the 9th to go and this could be dragged out for a few years.
I'm inclined to agree John. However, I thought that Elder's 'Job' was a fine recording.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5533 on: May 18, 2022, 01:29:22 PM »
Alarm bells begin to ring faintly when I hear terms like 'urgent' and 'Sibelian' coupled with the 5th Symphony.

I have the standard remastered Boult cycle (the 1970s one) and I thought his Fifth was a little too fast and urgent. I prefer more radiant and mystical performances.

But then that's just me. ( I got into trouble on the Froberger thread for expressing such preferences too  ;)).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5534 on: May 18, 2022, 01:40:34 PM »
Alarm bells begin to ring faintly when I hear terms like 'urgent' and 'Sibelian' coupled with the 5th Symphony.

I have the standard remastered Boult cycle (the 1970s one) and I thought his Fifth was a little too fast and urgent. I prefer more radiant and mystical performances.

But then that's just me. ( I got into trouble on the Froberger thread for expressing such preferences too  ;)).
Well, it is dedicated to Sibelius  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5535 on: May 18, 2022, 03:39:21 PM »
Well, it is dedicated to Sibelius  :)

It may have been dedicated to Sibelius, but the 5th inhabits a completely different sonic realm in comparison. By the time of writing the 5th, RVW was already an established composer and had forged a sound-world that was totally his own. Completely otherworldly. Of course, Sibelius could very well write works that were otherworldly, too, but it sounds like him regardless of what he tried. The same rings true for RVW I think.
“I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.” - Gustav Mahler

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5536 on: May 19, 2022, 06:15:35 AM »
Alarm bells begin to ring faintly when I hear terms like 'urgent' and 'Sibelian' coupled with the 5th Symphony.

I have the standard remastered Boult cycle (the 1970s one) and I thought his Fifth was a little too fast and urgent. I prefer more radiant and mystical performances.

But then that's just me. ( I got into trouble on the Froberger thread for expressing such preferences too  ;)).

As in the recent (last week) BBC "Building a Library" when the reviewer listened to recordings of the 4th Symphony "blind" which I think a good move as preconceptions do not come into play. Similarly the Menuhin "radiant and mystical" recording of the 5th would rate far higher if the conductor's identity was hidden from the listener. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5537 on: May 19, 2022, 12:37:02 PM »
As in the recent (last week) BBC "Building a Library" when the reviewer listened to recordings of the 4th Symphony "blind" which I think a good move as preconceptions do not come into play. Similarly the Menuhin "radiant and mystical" recording of the 5th would rate far higher if the conductor's identity was hidden from the listener.
Interesting point about the Menuhin Lol.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5538 on: May 19, 2022, 11:19:15 PM »
Interesting point about the Menuhin Lol.

I'm bit of a Menuhin fanboy, Jeffrey. He sullied his reputation by playing his instrument too long into old age when his technique was found wanting but he retained a deep overall musical insight. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #5539 on: May 19, 2022, 11:52:48 PM »
I'm bit of a Menuhin fanboy, Jeffrey. He sullied his reputation by playing his instrument too long into old age when his technique was found wanting but he retained a deep overall musical insight.

I have to say that the group of recordings Menuhin made with the RPO on their "own" Tring label are very very good indeed - as are his Elgar Symphonies etc with the same  orchestra on Virgin.  HOWEVER, I also know from colleagues who were in the RPO at that time that his conducting technique was so vague and unfathomable that more often than not at key corners in the score it was a case of follow the leader - literally - and ignore the podium.  The curious thing is that - as with his own playing - apparently Menuhin had little or no awareness of just how poor his own technique was.  BUT - when the music was familiar and his technical shortcomings could be accomodated he DID bring musical inspiration as can be heard on those discs.  His Beethoven Symphony cycle with the Sinfonia Varsovia is likewise very good.