Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 887859 times)

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Hector

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2007, 05:20:14 AM »
The English Folk Song Suite may be minor RVW, but it's good, clean fun.

Who said it was minor?

It has 'Seventeen come Sunday' which is brilliant!

karlhenning

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2007, 05:44:34 AM »
If a three-movement suite for Military Band running only eleven minutes is not a minor work, what is?  Für Elise and nothing else?  ;D

greg

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2007, 06:35:23 AM »
It might've already been mentioned before, but was is the recommended set of symphonies for this guy?

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2007, 06:38:49 AM »
It might've already been mentioned before, but was is the recommended set of symphonies for this guy?

I have Thomson(Chandos) and Previn (RCA - cheap as hell). Both are pretty good. THe Chandos sound is a bit much for me - kind of too revereberent so I slightly prefer the Previn. Many like the Slatkin set but I think it is OOP. There are two Boult sets out there but I am in general not a big Boult fan, he is just not interesting as a conductor.

greg

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2007, 06:45:46 AM »
I have Thomson(Chandos) and Previn (RCA - cheap as hell). Both are pretty good. THe Chandos sound is a bit much for me - kind of too revereberent so I slightly prefer the Previn. Many like the Slatkin set but I think it is OOP. There are two Boult sets out there but I am in general not a big Boult fan, he is just not interesting as a conductor.
Thanks, I just checked out the Thomson and Previn sets.
Woooooooooooooowwwwwwwww!!!!  :o
The Previn set not only has the 9 symphonies, but much more, including a tuba concerto, has an average of a 5-star rating, and is only $20!!!!  :o
That's not something you see every day, good thing I asked. Well, that'll definetely be on my wish-list....  0:)

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2007, 06:56:22 AM »
Thanks, I just checked out the Thomson and Previn sets.
Woooooooooooooowwwwwwwww!!!!  :o
The Previn set not only has the 9 symphonies, but much more, including a tuba concerto, has an average of a 5-star rating, and is only $20!!!!  :o
That's not something you see every day, good thing I asked. Well, that'll definetely be on my wish-list....  0:)

Beware that Amazon don't stock the Previn set. I ordered mine and it took over 2 months for them to ship  >:(

But you can't beat the price though. The Boult set (the one with 5 CDs, not the 8 CD version) is also available for around $20-$25 depending on availability at the time. The Thomson is quite expensive for some weird reason. But once in a while you catch a Musical Heritage Society incarnation of the Thomson set for cheap.

greg

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2007, 07:07:12 AM »
Beware that Amazon don't stock the Previn set. I ordered mine and it took over 2 months for them to ship  >:(

ooh, yeah, that's definetely good to before buying

Offline sound67

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2007, 07:27:41 AM »
It might've already been mentioned before, but was is the recommended set of symphonies for this guy?

This one is the best bet for the entire set of nine:



On this CD:

   1. Symphony No. 1, '(A) Sea Symphony'
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Choir
      with Joan Rodgers, William Shimell
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   2. Symphony No. 2, '(A) London Symphony'
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   3. Symphony No. 8 in D minor
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   4. English Folk Song Suite
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   5. Symphony No. 3, '(A) Pastoral Symphony'
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      with Alison Barlow
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   6. Symphony No. 4 in F minor
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   7. Flos campi
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Choir
      with Christopher Balmer
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   8. Concerto for Oboe and Strings in A minor
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      with Jonathan Small
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

   9. Symphony No. 5 in D
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  10. Symphony No. 6 in E minor
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  11. Symphony No. 9 in E minor
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  12. Fantasia on 'Greensleeves'
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
      with Colin Chambers, Mair Jones
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  13. Serenade to Music
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Choir
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  14. Symphony No. 7, 'Sinfonia antartica'
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Performed by Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Choir
      with Alison Hargan, Ian Tracey
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  15. Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  16. Five Variants of "Dives and Lazarus"
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

  17. Job
      Composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams
      Conducted by Vernon Handley

There are greater individual performances of most of these works (Boult for No.1, Previn for No.3, Berglund for No.4, Andrew Davis for No.6, Haitink for No.7, Barbirolli for No.8), but the set has no weak moments in the symphonies and contains JOB as well. In Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and 9 Handley is superb.

Haitink and Slatkin are wildly uneven: Haitink does a good 1st, a terrifc 2nd, an OK 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th, the best "Anatartica" - but a terrible 8th and 9th, Slatkin is great only in No.4 and No.9, terrible in No.2, undistinguished in Nos. 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7. Bryden Thomson's set is also very fine, he does a great "London" and fine 3rd, 4th, 5th and 9th Symphonies, but the 1st is only OK, as is No.7. No.6 is a lacklustre performance. Previn/LSO still has the best "Pastoral" on offer, and the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th, 8th and 9th are all good. Nos 4 & 6 are not that great. Boult's two complete sets have their share of "classics" - nobody has ever done a greater "Sea Symphony" than Boult, and that accounts for both of his versions (mono and stereo sets). The Mono set has less polished playing but much more energy and finesse.

The worst set is the Naxos (Kees Bakels falls short of the mark in almost all of his contributions except in the 7th and 8th), followed by Andrew Davis (only his 6th can be recommended) and Hickox' recent cycle.

These symphonies are mostly true masterpieces, so you might consider buying individual performances instead:

No.1 - Boult/EMI (Stereo), Boult/Decca (Mono)
No.2 - Barbirolli (Dutton, stereo), Thomson (Chandos), Handley (EMI - the LPO performance!), Arwel Hughes (ASV), Haitink (EMI)
No.3 - Previn/RCA, or Boult/Decca (Mono), Thomson (Chandos)
No.4 - Berglund/EMI, Vaughan Williams (Dutton, mono), Handley, Thomson
No.5 - Handley, Previn/RPO (Telarc), Thomson, Hickox(!, Chandos)
No.6 - A.Davis (Teldec), Handley
No.7 - Haitink (EMI), Barbirolli (EMI, mono)
No.8 - Barbirolli (Dutton, stereo), Stokowski, Handley
No.9 - Thomson, Slatkin (RCA)

Thomas
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

greg

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2007, 09:38:51 AM »
thanks for the recommendations!

wow, a true Vaughan Williams fan right here, huh?  8)

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2007, 01:41:14 AM »
Here's my list:

No 1 Boult (Decca)

No 2 Previn (RCA), Boult (EMI), Barbirolli (EMI, I know many prefer the earlier Dutton), Hickox (orig version 1913) Chandos, Handley (EMI not CFP version)

No 3 Previn (RCA)

No 4 Berglund (EMI), Thomson (Chandos) Mitropoulos (Sony)

No 5 Barbirolli (EMI) Hickox (Chandos)

No 6 Abravanel (Vanguard), Boult (Decca) Stokowski (Cala), Berglund (HMV n/a)

No 7 Barbirolli (EMI), Haitink (EMI)

No 8 Previn (RCA)

No 9 Stokowski (Cala), Boult (EMI or Decca/Everest), Slatkin (RCA), Thomson (Chandos)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 03:10:44 AM by Captain Haddock »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline sound67

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2007, 01:45:14 AM »
I totally forgot Abravanel in the 6th - great recording now available on DVD.

Also, Bernstein is good  in the 4th.

Thomas
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2007, 02:21:00 AM »
Also, Bernstein is good  in the 4th.
Thomas

Thank you for adding Bernstein's Fourth. It's absence was the only quibble I had with your original list. Well, I do like Boult in the Ninth but can't fault your selections in this strange symphony (my favorite along with the Eighth).

1 - Boult EMI
2 - Barbirolli/Hallé
3 - Previn/LSO (but very fond of Boult too)
4 - Bernstein/NY Phil
5 - Handley/RLPO
6 - Davis/BBC
7 - Haitink/LPO
8 - Barbirolli/Hallé
9 - Boult/EMI

Sarge
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 02:46:32 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2007, 04:03:13 AM »
I agree; Bernstein's No 4 is excellent too.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Benji

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2007, 12:31:37 PM »
Who said it was minor?

It has 'Seventeen come Sunday' which is brilliant!

I recently bought a disc of Percy Grainger's choral music (J E Gardiner conducting), which includes his adaptation of this folk song and it's just so much fun (the whole disc is full of gems)!

Offline Benji

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2007, 12:43:48 PM »
Bernstein's 4th didn't sit well with me, though I can't remember why. Berglund is my man for the 4th, with Handley bringing up the rear. I even like Haitink in this (and in the 9th).

For the 6th I, again, prefer Haitink, though I am now very fond of Berglund in this too (thanks again, Jeffrey). I was disappointed with Davies after all the hype, I must say.

No argument from me about Previn being the man for the 3rd. That recording really was a revelation.

But anyway, I want to hear more about Riders to the Sea. I have only heard tantalising clips of the EMI recording and will wait patiently for its re-release.

karlhenning

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2007, 02:36:10 PM »
Bernstein's 4th didn't sit well with me, though I can't remember why. Berglund is my man for the 4th, with Handley bringing up the rear. I even like Haitink in this (and in the 9th).

I agree that Haitink does well with the Fourth.  I don't remember any disappointment with Handley in that work, though . . . will break it out again tomorrow!

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2007, 03:09:41 AM »
Bernstein's 4th didn't sit well with me, though I can't remember why. Berglund is my man for the 4th, with Handley bringing up the rear. I even like Haitink in this (and in the 9th).

For the 6th I, again, prefer Haitink, though I am now very fond of Berglund in this too (thanks again, Jeffrey). I was disappointed with Davies after all the hype, I must say.

No argument from me about Previn being the man for the 3rd. That recording really was a revelation.

But anyway, I want to hear more about Riders to the Sea. I have only heard tantalising clips of the EMI recording and will wait patiently for its re-release.

Yes, I  have added Berglund's No 6 to my list above, although it has long been unavailable (its only CD appearance, as far as I know, was a brief appearance on the original HMV own label series, where it was coupled with an underrated version of No 5 conducted by Alexander Gibson). Berglund's No 6 is a craggy, epic, sibelian interpretation.  Richard Abram at EMI tells me that there are plans for EMI to reissue these performances in their British Composers series but, since then, there have been cut backs at the EMI classical division.

"Riders to the Sea" is a hauntingly atmospheric work, more of a one act "music drama" rather than opera. The EMI Meredith Davies version is the one to have. It was coupled with "Epithalamion" Vaughan Williams's last choral work; a beautiful, haunting score. The booklet with the EMI release also contained the wonderful 1957/8 painting of Vaughan Williams by Gerald Kelly. It was perhaps my favourite disc in the EMI British Composers series.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 03:13:46 AM by Captain Haddock »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Hector

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2007, 04:51:37 AM »
If a three-movement suite for Military Band running only eleven minutes is not a minor work, what is?  Für Elise and nothing else?  ;D

Oh, you mean 'minor' as in short, like a Chopin etude or a Debussy prelude.

Yeah, right 8)

Offline sound67

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2007, 11:12:23 PM »
"Riders to the Sea" is a hauntingly atmospheric work, more of a one act "music drama" rather than opera. The EMI Meredith Davies version is the one to have. It was coupled with "Epithalamion" Vaughan Williams's last choral work; a beautiful, haunting score. The booklet with the EMI release also contained the wonderful 1957/8 painting of Vaughan Williams by Gerald Kelly. It was perhaps my favourite disc in the EMI British Composers series.

I agree on both counts: An amazingly beautiful work, very concise at 40 minutes, and a great performance. Hickox' Chandos version is not bad, though - which is more than you can say for some of the other RVW he recorded for Chandos.

These are some recommendations for other, shorter RVW works:

- Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis - Sinfonia of London/Barbirolli (EMI GROC), RPO/Previn, and, most emphatically, Bournemouth SO/Constantine Silvestri (!!!, EMI British Composers)
- JOB (not really a short work at 50 minutes) - LPO/Boult (EMI)
- The Lark Ascending - Hahn/LSO/Davis (DG), Chang/LPO/Haitink (EMI), Pougnet/LPO/Boult (Dutton, mono), Bean/LPO/Boult (EMI)
- Piano Concerto: Shelley/RPO/Handley (Lyrita, coupled with another great work, the "Dynamic Triptych" by John Foulds)
- all the choral works on EMI, either by Boult or by Willcocks
- sting quartets by the Maggini Quartet, on Naxos, if only 1st: Britten Quartet on EMI

Thomas

Thomas
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #79 on: May 04, 2007, 05:25:54 AM »
The EMI CD with Job (Boult) and the double Piano Concerto (Vronsky/Babin/Boult) is my favourite recording of both works, although Boult's earlier Belart and Everest versions of Job are also very good.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).