Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[relm1]

Hey all, I'm only just getting into Vaughan Williams' music. I have been listening to the complete symphonies by Boult and have been especially drawn to symphonies 6 and 9.

I'm sure you have already discussed this several times over the previous 300+ pages but what do you consider amazing RVW recordings that I should get?

My favorite No. 9 is Previn/LSO.  I've probably heard all the releases of this symphony but find the Previn/LSO to be firing on all cylinders and like the best recordings, transcends the notes.  Others might have better audio quality or better single moments, but this performance is the best overall.   I haven't heard another version that is as close to "getting it".  Perhaps Adrian Boult. 

[vandermolen]

Hey all, I'm only just getting into Vaughan Williams' music. I have been listening to the complete symphonies by Boult and have been especially drawn to symphonies 6 and 9.

I'm sure you have already discussed this several times over the previous 300+ pages but what do you consider amazing RVW recordings that I should get?

This set is inexpensive (8CDs) and contains a good cross section of his work (you'd only duplicate Symphony No.9). I'd also recommend 'Job'A Masque for Dancing' - there are many recordings.
Welcome to the forum:

[vandermolen]

Been enjoying this book. I was amused to hear that VW took the score of The Wasps to Boult and Sir Hugh Allen in his early composing days. Boult and Allen sang the parts and VW accompanied them (badly) on the piano. At the end of the session Allen told VW to 'go and learn the piano'. V funny!

[Karl Henning]

Today's thought experiment: a symphonic movement by a composer I do not normally pair with RVW, but pretend you don't see the name of the composer of this Andante moderato, and see if you, too, could imagine Vaughan Williams having written it:

[Irons]

Today's thought experiment: a symphonic movement by a composer I do not normally pair with RVW, but pretend you don't see the name of the composer of this Andante moderato, and see if you, too, could imagine Vaughan Williams having written it:

It is the oboe that does it. The strings at 6.30 is RVW. Impressive piece which I enjoyed.

[relm1]

Today's thought experiment: a symphonic movement by a composer I do not normally pair with RVW, but pretend you don't see the name of the composer of this Andante moderato, and see if you, too, could imagine Vaughan Williams having written it:

I hear it as anglophile.  It still sounds American because of some of the harmonic progressions but by a yank deeply in love with English pastoralism.  It's very beautiful and being written in 1947, makes sense that the shadow of RVW would loom large.  For example, I think this is a good example of something sounding American but invoking English moods and color.  From, John Williams' score to War Horse.  Not particularly RVW but very English from an American lens.

(Especially at 0:35 when the theme comes in.)

The reason why I think this has an Americanesque feel to it is because it's somewhere between English pastoralism and Americana.  I sometimes equate Americana to Copland (Appalachian Springs) but seems others really spell it out and it's an interesting cross pollination of styles. 

I think this is another gorgeous example of Americana (again John Williams) but don't know what in classical repitoire is closer to the spirit than this when Clarke leaves home.

https://youtu.be/g9rLC2O1JNk?t=36

That Clarke leaving home sequence is so gorgeous and so American (played by London Symphony) but there is such an achingly poignant and resolute quality, so perfect for the mom too.  She knows her son must leave, the moment she dreaded all her life has come.  She is heartbroken but trying to stay strong, just like the music.  I hear a lot of RVW in this but it's also Americana. 

[Roasted Swan]

I've been listening to the last installment of the Brabbins/BBC SO cycle on Hyperion - I wonder if this will be one of their last major projects before their sale to Universal?



Generally I have enjoyed this cycle - certainly well-played and sounding good (most of the time).  The same applies to this final disc too but overall I'm a bit underwhelmed.  Nothing to take offence at and all making good musical sense but little sense of discovery or wonder either.  Good centrist, British Orchestral Tradition performances of relatively familiar repertoire.  Perhaps its time for an American or German orchestra to give us a cycle?!?! (well I can wish can't I.......)

[vandermolen]

I've been listening to the last installment of the Brabbins/BBC SO cycle on Hyperion - I wonder if this will be one of their last major projects before their sale to Universal?



Generally I have enjoyed this cycle - certainly well-played and sounding good (most of the time).  The same applies to this final disc too but overall I'm a bit underwhelmed.  Nothing to take offence at and all making good musical sense but little sense of discovery or wonder either.  Good centrist, British Orchestral Tradition performances of relatively familiar repertoire.  Perhaps its time for an American or German orchestra to give us a cycle?!?! (well I can wish can't I.......)

Didn't know about the Universal sale. I haven't received the new Hyperion CD yet. Hurwitz gave it a terrible review but I don't always trust his judgment.

[Roasted Swan]

Didn't know about the Universal sale. I haven't received the new Hyperion CD yet. Hurwitz gave it a terrible review but I don't always trust his judgment.

It certainly is NOT terrible in any way shape or form.  That's just Hurwitz allowing his rational judgement to be overwhelmed by his distorted perception of self-gratified British critics and orchestras - something I have not encountered certainly in recent times.

Perhaps I'm like a spoilt child in a sweet shop - so much choice that now only something brightly coloured and shiny will do! (probably a toy shop....).  The thing is we have had so many genuinely fine RVW cycles and individual symphonies that it becomes hard to find something different/challenging but convincing.  Which is why I said about a continental or US orchestra doing a full cycle.  Apart from anything else it would prove that RVW is not 'just' an inward looking composer with nothing to say to the wider world.

One thing I really don't like on this new recording is the use of an "actual recording of wind" rather than the wind machine in Antartica.  Given its "real" it sounds strangely synthetic.  Also, RVW marks in the score quie carefully loudening/softening which they can only achieve by cranking up the volume on the desk.  This also lessens the effect of the off-stage female voices blending with the wind-machine - there is no blend.  Also, in a very odd choice the wind is left "blowing" for about 20 seconds after the orchestra/singers stop.  That is not in the score at all.  Producer Andrew Keener in fact did the same thing on the Slatkin recording albeit with a wind machine but followed the score precisely (everything finishing together) for Handley and the RLPO which is surely the right way to do it.  Not heard the Manze which he also produced so no idea what he did then.

[vandermolen]

It certainly is NOT terrible in any way shape or form.  That's just Hurwitz allowing his rational judgement to be overwhelmed by his distorted perception of self-gratified British critics and orchestras - something I have not encountered certainly in recent times.

Perhaps I'm like a spoilt child in a sweet shop - so much choice that now only something brightly coloured and shiny will do! (probably a toy shop....).  The thing is we have had so many genuinely fine RVW cycles and individual symphonies that it becomes hard to find something different/challenging but convincing.  Which is why I said about a continental or US orchestra doing a full cycle.  Apart from anything else it would prove that RVW is not 'just' an inward looking composer with nothing to say to the wider world.

One thing I really don't like on this new recording is the use of an "actual recording of wind" rather than the wind machine in Antartica.  Given its "real" it sounds strangely synthetic.  Also, RVW marks in the score quie carefully loudening/softening which they can only achieve by cranking up the volume on the desk.  This also lessens the effect of the off-stage female voices blending with the wind-machine - there is no blend.  Also, in a very odd choice the wind is left "blowing" for about 20 seconds after the orchestra/singers stop.  That is not in the score at all.  Producer Andrew Keener in fact did the same thing on the Slatkin recording albeit with a wind machine but followed the score precisely (everything finishing together) for Handley and the RLPO which is surely the right way to do it.  Not heard the Manze which he also produced so no idea what he did then.

Thanks for your characteristically thoughtful and considered view RS. I think that Hurwitz overpraises Slatkin's cycle (which I generally like) and rubbishes Haitink. We are spoilt for choice. I was brought up with Boult and my favourite 2,3 and 8 are conducted by Previn. Of more recent sets the Thomson rates highly for me (as does his Bax cycle). I think very highly of the Brabbins cycle so far.

[Karl Henning]

That's just Hurwitz allowing his rational judgement to be overwhelmed

It's decades since I've read anything that Hurwitz has written, but I cannot say he's ever impressed me as a rational human being.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

It's decades since I've read anything that Hurwitz has written, but I cannot say he's ever impressed me as a rational human being.

Are any of us completely rational though when it comes to something that we're passionate about (like music)?    Hmmmm... just a thought.

PD

[Karl Henning]

Are any of us completely rational though when it comes to something that we're passionate about (like music)?    Hmmmm... just a thought.

PD

That's a fair thought, but whatever passions may govern my musical likes and preferences, as a reviewer, I am expected to write as a rational adult.

[DavidW]

Thanks for your characteristically thoughtful and considered view RS. I think that Hurwitz overpraises Slatkin's cycle (which I generally like) and rubbishes Haitink. We are spoilt for choice. I was brought up with Boult and my favourite 2,3 and 8 are conducted by Previn. Of more recent sets the Thomson rates highly for me (as does his Bax cycle). I think very highly of the Brabbins cycle so far.

Yes he makes it sound like Slatkin is by far the greatest, and Haitink is unlistenable.  But I like both along with the other cycles I've heard.  I don't think there is any top dog (not even Previn or Boult).  Just multiple sets with different approaches.

[vandermolen]

Yes he makes it sound like Slatkin is by far the greatest, and Haitink is unlistenable.  But I like both along with the other cycles I've heard.  I don't think there is any top dog (not even Previn or Boult).  Just multiple sets with different approaches.

Largely agree David.

[Roasted Swan]

Yes he makes it sound like Slatkin is by far the greatest, and Haitink is unlistenable.  But I like both along with the other cycles I've heard.  I don't think there is any top dog (not even Previn or Boult).  Just multiple sets with different approaches.

Well put - simply put no single performance can ever be the final word on anything.  It might well be a personal "favourite" and that's fine but there is always 'another way'.

[vandermolen]

Well put - simply put no single performance can ever be the final word on anything.  It might well be a personal "favourite" and that's fine but there is always 'another way'.

OK, well here are my very favourites (at least for today)

A Sea Symphony (Haitink, Hurwitz would disapprove but this performance brought this work alive for me)
A London Symphony (Hickox - a must as it's the only recording of the original version from 1913) also Brabbins (1920 version) and Previn (1936 final version) Boult EMI/Warner is also magisterial here.
A Pastoral Symphony (Previn, LSO. Elder's best recording too)
No.4 Mitropolous (VW liked this one), Berglund. I find the VW version just rushed.
No.5 Vaughan Williams, Previn, Gibson, Barbirolli (EMI)
No. 6 Boult, LPO (Decca)
Antartica Boult LPO (Decca)
No.8 Previn
No.9 Boult (Everest), Boult (EMI) Stokowski (Cala) Slatkin, Thomson.

[Karl Henning]

Yes he makes it sound like Slatkin is by far the greatest, and Haitink is unlistenable.  But I like both along with the other cycles I've heard.  I don't think there is any top dog (not even Previn or Boult).  Just multiple sets with different approaches.

Agreed.

[DavidW]

OK, well here are my very favourites (at least for today)

A Sea Symphony (Haitink, Hurwitz would disapprove but this performance brought this work alive for me)
A London Symphony (Hickox - a must as it's the only recording of the original version from 1913) also Brabbins (1920 version) and Previn (1936 final version) Boult EMI/Warner is also magisterial here.
A Pastoral Symphony (Previn, LSO. Elder's best recording too)
No.4 Mitropolous (VW liked this one), Berglund. I find the VW version just rushed.
No.5 Vaughan Williams, Previn, Gibson, Barbirolli (EMI)
No. 6 Boult, LPO (Decca)
Antartica Boult LPO (Decca)
No.8 Previn
No.9 Boult (Everest), Boult (EMI) Stokowski (Cala) Slatkin, Thomson.

Oh I feel the same about Haitink's Sea symphony!  I'll have to navigate through the ones on your list that I haven't heard such as the Mitropolous 4th.

[vandermolen]

Oh I feel the same about Haitink's Sea symphony!  I'll have to navigate through the ones on your list that I haven't heard such as the Mitropolous 4th.

It was a favourite of VW's. It was on an old Sony/CBS CD with Stokowski's recording of Symphony No.6 (which was actually the first recording of the work, beating Boult by a few days).