Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Mirror Image]

I'd like to read some opinions of Haitink's RVW cycle for those that have heard the cycle. What are the standout performances?

[Christo]

I'd like to read some opinions of Haitink's RVW cycle for those that have heard the cycle. What are the standout performances?

Perhaps you better start with this legendary Hurwitzer review of Nos. 8 & 9: http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-6004/ 

[Mirror Image]

Perhaps you better start with this legendary Hurwitzer review of Nos. 8 & 9: http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-6004/ 

Ouch! I'm not a particularly big fan of Haitink's RVW (if memory serves me correctly here), but that's quite a harsh review.

[Christo]

What is the gadget in his left ear?  Did he get stereo amplification?

At least some sort of amplification, I guess. It's also shown on his famous 1958 portrait by Gerald Kelly (now in the National Gallery):

[vandermolen]

At least some sort of amplification, I guess. It's also shown on his famous 1958 portrait by Gerald Kelly (now in the National Gallery):

A wonderful painting - one of several by Sir Gerald Kelly. Now, sadly not on display at the National Portrait Gallery but in their storage. In fact they have no painting or sculpture or photo of VW on display. I wrote to complain ('angry and disgusted of Tunbridge Wells etc') that they had no place for VW but they did have space for Sir Oswald Mosley the leader of the BUF (British Union of Fascists). There is no VW museum in the UK either. 

[vandermolen]

I'd like to read some opinions of Haitink's RVW cycle for those that have heard the cycle. What are the standout performances?

For me John 'A Sea Symphony' is the standout performance but I know that 7 'Antartica' is highly rated too.

[Mirror Image]

For me John 'A Sea Symphony' is the standout performance but I know that 7 'Antartica' is highly rated too.

Yeah, I must revisit Haitink's A Sea Symphony at least.

Here's another question: Boult or Hickox in The Pilgrim's Progress?

[vandermolen]

Yeah, I must revisit Haitink's A Sea Symphony at least.

Here's another question: Boult or Hickox in The Pilgrim's Progress?

Both good and I've seen Hickox doing it live. I think you like more recent recordings so maybe go for Hickox but the Boult is very moving too and might be cheaper. I think you'll be happy with either.

[Mirror Image]

Both good and I've seen Hickox doing it live. I think you like more recent recordings so maybe go for Hickox but the Boult is very moving too and might be cheaper. I think you'll be happy with either.

Thanks, Jeffrey. I own both recordings. I'll probably go with Boult in the end, because I do love his conducting a lot, especially in RVW.

[Sergeant Rock]

I'd like to read some opinions of Haitink's RVW cycle for those that have heard the cycle. What are the standout performances?

Since you and I seldom agree about VW recordings, take this with a grain of salt. For me 1, 3, 5, 7, 8 and 9 are all outstanding in Haitink's very individual conceptions of RVW's symphonies (in general, slow and grave). Here are some reviews from Gramophone and MusicWeb, including a review of 8 & 9 to counter the Hurwitzer:

"A friendly word of warning to VW fans everywhere: Haitink will make you think again. No 'little' Eighth, this, rather an unapologetically bigscale conception, full of doughty integrity and always seeking out the intuitive logic that binds VW's symphonic thinking. If the Scherzo alla marcia falls short in terms of twinkling good humour here, the preceding, inimitably subtitled Variazioni senza tema unfolds with a revelatory sweep and purposefulness.

Likewise, the finale by and large forfeits "celebratory pomp and glitter in favour of a sinewy, intriguingly defiant strength entirely consistent with Haitink's patient view as a whole. Most distinctive of all is the sublime Cavatina for strings: very measured, raptly concentrated and imbued with a lofty serenity to relate it all the more movingly to the great Romanza of VW's Fifth Symphony[....]Turning to the craggy, questing Ninth [...]I'm inclined to rate Haitink's resplendent new version as the finest yet, a thrillingly convinced and convincing demonstration of the timeless universality of VWs masterpiece. I love the clear-sighted dedication and stoic grandeur of the opening Moderato maestoso. Not only is Haitink meticulously faithful to both the letter and spirit of the score, VW's argument evolves with a nobility and wholeness that grip from first measure to last. Those if tenuto strings at Fig 2 (1'02") in the second movement have just the right 'mud on boots' feel to them, and. like Handley before him, Haitink doesn't overplay his hand in the central lyrical episode (its chaste beauty all the more affecting as a consequence). The hobgoblins of the Scherzo cackle with plenty of malevolent glee, yet Haitink proves just as tenderly responsive to the strings' ravishing cantabile sostenuto dialogue between Figs 30 and 34 (from 406" to 442"). It's in the awesome final movement, though, where Haitink really surpasses himself: VW's,, monolithic vision is surveyed with an organial power and cumulative impact that left this listener, at any rate, dumb struck with admiration and gratitude."


"...his version of the Fifth is not for those who know already how they want the piece to sound, because he challenges most preconceptions. His is a very dark reading, even grave. One way in which he achieves this is through tempo: at over forty-three minutes this is the slowest Fifth on record. Only Previn takes more time than Haitink in the first movement, but his view is serene rather than grave. Haitink displays even more freedom of tempo, even more tendency to ritenuto and rallentando, leading us across an important and imposing landscape at a pace which is emphatically not, may it be said, moderato. His Allegro is not fast either, but contrasts well with the preceding section all the same. There is little or no acceleration as he makes his way to a quite stunningly powerful central climax, followed by a "tutta forza" freer in tempo than usual and a climax held back in an extreme way which I would usually resist but which, perhaps perversely, I find totally convincing here, in the context of Haitink's overall view of the movement."

"Clocking in at an eyebrow-raising 39:01 overall, Bernard Haitink's is the most intrepidly spacious Pastoral yet. That it's also one of the most sheerly gripping is a tribute both to the superlative contribution of the LPO as well as the towering humanity of the great Dutch maestro's patient view. EMI's top-notch sound captures every strand in the texture with the utmost realism and does full justice to Haitink's scrupulous control of dynamics (yes, there is a world of difference between pp and ppp, he seems to be reminding us time and again). Haitink taps into a vein of a stoic grandeur in the twilit threnody of the second movement that I find profoundly affecting. The Scherzo is invested with a weighty gravitas, its demeanour by turns intimidatingly sombre and grudgingly jubilant; listen out for the rasp of principal clarinet at the very top of its range as the orchestra is at last granted its full head either side of fig B (046'). The finale, in which Amanda Roocroft's smoky, mezzo-ish timbre casts a remote, yet alluring spell, allies epic breadth to keen concentration.

[Karl Henning]

Since you and I seldom agree about VW recordings, take this with a grain of salt. For me 1, 3, 5, 7, 8 and 9 are all outstanding in Haitink's very individual conceptions of RVW's symphonies (in general, slow and grave). Here are some reviews from Gramophone and MusicWeb, including a review of 8 & 9 to counter the Hurwitzer:

"A friendly word of warning to VW fans everywhere: Haitink will make you think again. No 'little' Eighth, this, rather an unapologetically bigscale conception, full of doughty integrity and always seeking out the intuitive logic that binds VW's symphonic thinking. If the Scherzo alla marcia falls short in terms of twinkling good humour here, the preceding, inimitably subtitled Variazioni senza tema unfolds with a revelatory sweep and purposefulness.

Likewise, the finale by and large forfeits "celebratory pomp and glitter in favour of a sinewy, intriguingly defiant strength entirely consistent with Haitink's patient view as a whole. Most distinctive of all is the sublime Cavatina for strings: very measured, raptly concentrated and imbued with a lofty serenity to relate it all the more movingly to the great Romanza of VW's Fifth Symphony[....]Turning to the craggy, questing Ninth [...]I'm inclined to rate Haitink's resplendent new version as the finest yet, a thrillingly convinced and convincing demonstration of the timeless universality of VWs masterpiece. I love the clear-sighted dedication and stoic grandeur of the opening Moderato maestoso. Not only is Haitink meticulously faithful to both the letter and spirit of the score, VW's argument evolves with a nobility and wholeness that grip from first measure to last. Those if tenuto strings at Fig 2 (1'02") in the second movement have just the right 'mud on boots' feel to them, and. like Handley before him, Haitink doesn't overplay his hand in the central lyrical episode (its chaste beauty all the more affecting as a consequence). The hobgoblins of the Scherzo cackle with plenty of malevolent glee, yet Haitink proves just as tenderly responsive to the strings' ravishing cantabile sostenuto dialogue between Figs 30 and 34 (from 406" to 442"). It's in the awesome final movement, though, where Haitink really surpasses himself: VW's,, monolithic vision is surveyed with an organial power and cumulative impact that left this listener, at any rate, dumb struck with admiration and gratitude."


"...his version of the Fifth is not for those who know already how they want the piece to sound, because he challenges most preconceptions. His is a very dark reading, even grave. One way in which he achieves this is through tempo: at over forty-three minutes this is the slowest Fifth on record. Only Previn takes more time than Haitink in the first movement, but his view is serene rather than grave. Haitink displays even more freedom of tempo, even more tendency to ritenuto and rallentando, leading us across an important and imposing landscape at a pace which is emphatically not, may it be said, moderato. His Allegro is not fast either, but contrasts well with the preceding section all the same. There is little or no acceleration as he makes his way to a quite stunningly powerful central climax, followed by a "tutta forza" freer in tempo than usual and a climax held back in an extreme way which I would usually resist but which, perhaps perversely, I find totally convincing here, in the context of Haitink's overall view of the movement."

"Clocking in at an eyebrow-raising 39:01 overall, Bernard Haitink's is the most intrepidly spacious Pastoral yet. That it's also one of the most sheerly gripping is a tribute both to the superlative contribution of the LPO as well as the towering humanity of the great Dutch maestro's patient view. EMI's top-notch sound captures every strand in the texture with the utmost realism and does full justice to Haitink's scrupulous control of dynamics (yes, there is a world of difference between pp and ppp, he seems to be reminding us time and again). Haitink taps into a vein of a stoic grandeur in the twilit threnody of the second movement that I find profoundly affecting. The Scherzo is invested with a weighty gravitas, its demeanour by turns intimidatingly sombre and grudgingly jubilant; listen out for the rasp of principal clarinet at the very top of its range as the orchestra is at last granted its full head either side of fig B (046'). The finale, in which Amanda Roocroft's smoky, mezzo-ish timbre casts a remote, yet alluring spell, allies epic breadth to keen concentration.

Thanks for chiming in, Sarge.  It's been too long since I listened to the set, so I did not feel comfortable writing up a proper opinion, myself.  And I doubt I'm very helpful with, I like 'em all!  

[Mirror Image]

Since you and I seldom agree about VW recordings, take this with a grain of salt. For me 1, 3, 5, 7, 8 and 9 are all outstanding in Haitink's very individual conceptions of RVW's symphonies (in general, slow and grave). Here are some reviews from Gramophone and MusicWeb, including a review of 8 & 9 to counter the Hurwitzer:

"A friendly word of warning to VW fans everywhere: Haitink will make you think again. No 'little' Eighth, this, rather an unapologetically bigscale conception, full of doughty integrity and always seeking out the intuitive logic that binds VW's symphonic thinking. If the Scherzo alla marcia falls short in terms of twinkling good humour here, the preceding, inimitably subtitled Variazioni senza tema unfolds with a revelatory sweep and purposefulness.

Likewise, the finale by and large forfeits "celebratory pomp and glitter in favour of a sinewy, intriguingly defiant strength entirely consistent with Haitink's patient view as a whole. Most distinctive of all is the sublime Cavatina for strings: very measured, raptly concentrated and imbued with a lofty serenity to relate it all the more movingly to the great Romanza of VW's Fifth Symphony[....]Turning to the craggy, questing Ninth [...]I'm inclined to rate Haitink's resplendent new version as the finest yet, a thrillingly convinced and convincing demonstration of the timeless universality of VWs masterpiece. I love the clear-sighted dedication and stoic grandeur of the opening Moderato maestoso. Not only is Haitink meticulously faithful to both the letter and spirit of the score, VW's argument evolves with a nobility and wholeness that grip from first measure to last. Those if tenuto strings at Fig 2 (1'02") in the second movement have just the right 'mud on boots' feel to them, and. like Handley before him, Haitink doesn't overplay his hand in the central lyrical episode (its chaste beauty all the more affecting as a consequence). The hobgoblins of the Scherzo cackle with plenty of malevolent glee, yet Haitink proves just as tenderly responsive to the strings' ravishing cantabile sostenuto dialogue between Figs 30 and 34 (from 406" to 442"). It's in the awesome final movement, though, where Haitink really surpasses himself: VW's,, monolithic vision is surveyed with an organial power and cumulative impact that left this listener, at any rate, dumb struck with admiration and gratitude."


"...his version of the Fifth is not for those who know already how they want the piece to sound, because he challenges most preconceptions. His is a very dark reading, even grave. One way in which he achieves this is through tempo: at over forty-three minutes this is the slowest Fifth on record. Only Previn takes more time than Haitink in the first movement, but his view is serene rather than grave. Haitink displays even more freedom of tempo, even more tendency to ritenuto and rallentando, leading us across an important and imposing landscape at a pace which is emphatically not, may it be said, moderato. His Allegro is not fast either, but contrasts well with the preceding section all the same. There is little or no acceleration as he makes his way to a quite stunningly powerful central climax, followed by a "tutta forza" freer in tempo than usual and a climax held back in an extreme way which I would usually resist but which, perhaps perversely, I find totally convincing here, in the context of Haitink's overall view of the movement."

"Clocking in at an eyebrow-raising 39:01 overall, Bernard Haitink's is the most intrepidly spacious Pastoral yet. That it's also one of the most sheerly gripping is a tribute both to the superlative contribution of the LPO as well as the towering humanity of the great Dutch maestro's patient view. EMI's top-notch sound captures every strand in the texture with the utmost realism and does full justice to Haitink's scrupulous control of dynamics (yes, there is a world of difference between pp and ppp, he seems to be reminding us time and again). Haitink taps into a vein of a stoic grandeur in the twilit threnody of the second movement that I find profoundly affecting. The Scherzo is invested with a weighty gravitas, its demeanour by turns intimidatingly sombre and grudgingly jubilant; listen out for the rasp of principal clarinet at the very top of its range as the orchestra is at last granted its full head either side of fig B (046'). The finale, in which Amanda Roocroft's smoky, mezzo-ish timbre casts a remote, yet alluring spell, allies epic breadth to keen concentration.

Most interesting! Thanks for this, Sarge. I suppose I really should revisit Haitink's RVW now.

[cilgwyn]

I like Haitink's VW. I was a sceptic at first;although I knew his Sinfonia Antartica.......one of the two cd's I ever heard (I can't rememember what the other one was) via the local library. Sarge's post make me want to hear his 3 & 5! This one is very different to Boult's. The first recording I ever heard of these symphonies.

[cilgwyn]

Regarding the Sea Symphony. Haitink's Sea Symphony is the one that finally convinced me. I quite liked the Sea Symphony before;but there were points where I was looking at the display on the mini hi-fi,and thinking,how much longer is this going to go on?! Haitink's just seemed to grab my attention and hold it  from start to finish!

[relm1]

Haitink is very hit or miss.  His No. 9 is terrible and his No. 1 is perfection.  I think part of the problem is spanned so many decades that the conductor, orchestra, business evolved during the cycle.  You don't get a consistent read.  I would suggest other than No. 1, avoid the cycle. 

[Karl Henning]

...  You don't get a consistent read.  I would suggest other than No. 1, avoid the cycle.

Well, opinion is sharply divided!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Mirror Image]

Well, opinion is sharply divided!

Of course, the Hurwitzer loathes Haitink's RVW. For whatever that's worth.

[cilgwyn]

It's nice to know that what I'm listening to is only terrible!! Hm! I like his Ninth! Although,I think the Boult recording does has more of that,hard to pin down quality,called atmosphere.
Of course,I could change my mind?!

[vandermolen]

Regarding the Sea Symphony. Haitink's Sea Symphony is the one that finally convinced me. I quite liked the Sea Symphony before;but there were points where I was looking at the display on the mini hi-fi,and thinking,how much longer is this going to go on?! Haitink's just seemed to grab my attention and hold it  from start to finish!

This was exactly my experience also.

[Mirror Image]

It's nice to know that what I'm listening to is only terrible!! Hm! I like his Ninth! Although,I think the Boult recording does has more of that,hard to pin down quality,called atmosphere.
Of course,I could change my mind?!

As Karl mentioned, opinion is sharply divided on Haitink's RVW it seems. I think why some listeners didn't care much for the cycle is many of the performances were generally slower than what they're accustomed to hearing. You would never mistake Boult for Haitink or vice versa. For me, it's not that the more swifter approach makes RVW sound better, it's that there needs to be drive in the performance for the music to work and function. I'm all for a flexible approach to tempi, but not at the expense of forward momentum to where a slower tempo makes the music drag unnecessarily. As I said before, I might end up liking Haitink's approach now as it's been years since I've heard any of his performances. I plan on doing a few run-throughs of some symphonies. I think I'll listen to Symphonies Nos. 4-6 first. If he handles this middle trilogy to my liking, then I'll listen to the rest.