Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 547092 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4300 on: October 10, 2019, 11:03:45 PM »
Listened to this last night with much pleasure. I've never heard of Mason Bates, who is apparently a DJ turned classical composer. I enjoyed his work and will look out to more of his music. Both works are united by settings of Walt Whitman. At first I thought the VW sounded a bit underpowered but I increasingly enjoyed it and was as moved by the end as after any other performance:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4301 on: October 12, 2019, 02:07:53 AM »
VW's 147th birthday today:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4302 on: October 12, 2019, 11:20:46 AM »
Thanks for the reminder, Vandermolen.  I think I will listen to VW quite a bit today!  :)
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4303 on: October 12, 2019, 03:26:43 PM »
Thanks for the reminder, Vandermolen.  I think I will listen to VW quite a bit today!  :)
Pleased to hear it  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4304 on: October 13, 2019, 02:58:16 AM »
VW's 147th birthday today:


Nice photo, Jeffrey. A statue of him resides at the entrance to Dorking Halls. As you know he had quite an attachment to Dorking.

The familiar rat-a-tat of enemy machine-guns joined the melee. It was like an orchestra from hell, it’s tune being played out by the instruments of death. - The Sun Will Always Shine, John R McKay.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4305 on: October 13, 2019, 10:28:26 AM »
Nice photo, Jeffrey. A statue of him resides at the entrance to Dorking Halls. As you know he had quite an attachment to Dorking.



Thanks Lol. I have to say that I find the Dorking sculpture a bit nondescript as I  do of the one on the Chelsea Embankment, where the composer lived at the early part of the last century. Neither of those were modelled from life. By far the best in my opinion is the bust made by David McFall (pictured below) in the composer's presence, whilst he was composing his Ninth Symphony. VW kept very busy as he didn't want the young man (McFall) to see him 'slacking'. The resulting sculpture, I think, is very moving:



See info below as well:
http://www.davidmcfall.co.uk/page90.html
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 10:35:03 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4306 on: October 14, 2019, 12:05:15 AM »
Thanks Lol. I have to say that I find the Dorking sculpture a bit nondescript as I  do of the one on the Chelsea Embankment, where the composer lived at the early part of the last century. Neither of those were modelled from life. By far the best in my opinion is the bust made by David McFall (pictured below) in the composer's presence, whilst he was composing his Ninth Symphony. VW kept very busy as he didn't want the young man (McFall) to see him 'slacking'. The resulting sculpture, I think, is very moving:



See info below as well:
http://www.davidmcfall.co.uk/page90.html

Fascinating! Thank you very much for link. I didn't realise the significance of the LP cover image of RVW on the World Record Club issue of Boult's Everest recording of the 9th Symphony. Looking on back in small letters it does say - The bust of Vaughan Williams is reproduced by permission of Mrs Vaughan Williams and the sculptor.

The familiar rat-a-tat of enemy machine-guns joined the melee. It was like an orchestra from hell, it’s tune being played out by the instruments of death. - The Sun Will Always Shine, John R McKay.

Offline pjme

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4307 on: October 14, 2019, 01:48:43 AM »
RVW's concerto for two pianos from Russia. Good!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/56nIkeXIzb0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/56nIkeXIzb0</a>

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4308 on: October 14, 2019, 05:20:38 AM »
Fascinating! Thank you very much for link. I didn't realise the significance of the LP cover image of RVW on the World Record Club issue of Boult's Everest recording of the 9th Symphony. Looking on back in small letters it does say - The bust of Vaughan Williams is reproduced by permission of Mrs Vaughan Williams and the sculptor.


I bought that LP a few years ago just for the cover. It appears on Boult's EMI LP boxed set of the symphonies too - the first time I encountered the portrait and it encouraged me to a lifelong interest in sculpture. For years it was situated on one of the staircases at the Royal Festival Hall. I always went to visit it whenever I attended a concert there.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 05:22:18 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4309 on: October 14, 2019, 05:33:27 AM »
RVW's concerto for two pianos from Russia. Good!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/56nIkeXIzb0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/56nIkeXIzb0</a>

What an extraordinary performance! They make it sound like Shostakovich. I only heard the first few minutes as I have to go out (to a concert in London) but I really look forward to hearing the rest of it. Was this all in one concert? Thanks so much for posting such an interesting video. Great to hear RVW in Russia, although there is, amazingly, a Melodiya boxed set of the symphonies with Rozhdestvensky conducting.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4310 on: October 14, 2019, 03:00:49 PM »
There is a wonderful version conducted by the composer which only came to light a few years ago:


Vandermolen,

I was so excited by your pointer (a few posts ago) so I went ahead and got a copy of the historical recording you recommended and I'm NOT regretting it a bit.

Vaughan Williams
Symphony No. 5
London PO/Vaughan Williams


Definitely a powerful and immersive reading. Very beautiful recording. The sound is a little bit historical, but one forgives it easily and the music dominates. Lovely! The sound engineers did a fantastic job on Dona Nobis Pacem. I would never have guessed that it originated from the late 1930s (in contrast to the #5 from the 50s).  I think I will listen to it again it later this evening.  Thanks for the recommendation, Vandermolen! A keeper for sure!

"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Offline Moonfish

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4311 on: October 14, 2019, 03:01:53 PM »
I bought that LP a few years ago just for the cover. It appears on Boult's EMI LP boxed set of the symphonies too - the first time I encountered the portrait and it encouraged me to a lifelong interest in sculpture. For years it was situated on one of the staircases at the Royal Festival Hall. I always went to visit it whenever I attended a concert there.


Love how you got the LP just to get the cover!    ::)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4312 on: October 15, 2019, 12:13:22 AM »
Vandermolen,

I was so excited by your pointer (a few posts ago) so I went ahead and got a copy of the historical recording you recommended and I'm NOT regretting it a bit.

Vaughan Williams
Symphony No. 5
London PO/Vaughan Williams


Definitely a powerful and immersive reading. Very beautiful recording. The sound is a little bit historical, but one forgives it easily and the music dominates. Lovely! The sound engineers did a fantastic job on Dona Nobis Pacem. I would never have guessed that it originated from the late 1930s (in contrast to the #5 from the 50s).  I think I will listen to it again it later this evening.  Thanks for the recommendation, Vandermolen! A keeper for sure!



Moonfish,

I'm delighted that you enjoyed it so much! It's a remarkable performance of both works and one of the few CDs or LPs that I have purchased for the musical content rather than for the cover image  8). Having said that I do rather like the cover photo of a benevolent looking VW. To be frank I actually prefer VW's recording of his Fifth Symphony more than the fabled recording of him conducting his Fourth Symphony, which everyone raves about but it just sounds rushed to me. In terms of historical recordings I much prefer the one by Mitropolous of Symphony No.4. You are right that DNP (Dona Nobis Pacem) is also an excellent performance. I wish that there were more recordings of him conducting his own works. I'd loved to have heard him conducting A London Symphony or Symphony No.6 for example.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4313 on: November 07, 2019, 06:16:23 AM »
On Twitter: Ralph Vaughan Williams Society @RVWSociety  Looking forward to tomorrow's World Premiere of #RalphVaughanWilliams's 'The Future', based on the poem by #MatthewArnold
@theusherhall and @GCHalls on Saturday with @RSNO @RSNOChorus and conductor #MartinYates.

Also here: https://seenandheard-international.com/2019/10/new-martin-yates-and-rsno-to-give-world-premiere-of-the-future-by-ralph-vaughan-williams
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4314 on: November 07, 2019, 06:39:21 AM »
On Twitter: Ralph Vaughan Williams Society @RVWSociety  Looking forward to tomorrow's World Premiere of #RalphVaughanWilliams's 'The Future', based on the poem by #MatthewArnold
@theusherhall and @GCHalls on Saturday with @RSNO @RSNOChorus and conductor #MartinYates.

Also here: https://seenandheard-international.com/2019/10/new-martin-yates-and-rsno-to-give-world-premiere-of-the-future-by-ralph-vaughan-williams

this sort of thing pulls me in both directions.  As a fully paid up (but very sad) RVW completist my heart says wow wow wow.  Then my head kicks in and says a) RVW left it in short score b) it literally stops mid-page so it has had to be completed with no sketches at all. 

I appreciate the skill and dedication of Martin Yates and I'm sure his version will be as good as it could possibly be but should there be another conjectural piece such as this.  Perhaps RVW left it alone for a reason.  Of all the estates his seems to be the keenest on releasing juvenalia, speculative completions etc........

Offline Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4315 on: November 07, 2019, 06:56:52 AM »
this sort of thing pulls me in both directions.  As a fully paid up (but very sad) RVW completist my heart says wow wow wow.  Then my head kicks in and says a) RVW left it in short score b) it literally stops mid-page so it has had to be completed with no sketches at all. 

I appreciate the skill and dedication of Martin Yates and I'm sure his version will be as good as it could possibly be but should there be another conjectural piece such as this.  Perhaps RVW left it alone for a reason.  Of all the estates his seems to be the keenest on releasing juvenalia, speculative completions etc........

From what you say I assume the RVW Society has control of his musical estate, if so this is very sad. I doubt if there is a scrap of Mozart, Beethoven or Schubert that someone hasn't had a go at completing and recording but their music is in the public domain; the RVW Society should know better. I see no reason why they shouldn't publish the fragment for the benefit of scholars and other enthusiasts but why bother with a speculative completion?

Offline relm1

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4316 on: November 07, 2019, 07:00:32 AM »
I appreciate the skill and dedication of Martin Yates and I'm sure his version will be as good as it could possibly be but should there be another conjectural piece such as this.  Perhaps RVW left it alone for a reason.  Of all the estates his seems to be the keenest on releasing juvenalia, speculative completions etc........

I'm a completest too and you might be surprised that virtually any composer has much discarded works especially in their juvenilia years.  Mahler had four student symphonies and I would LOVE to hear them (they were destroyed during the WWII bombings), some indications of a Shostakovich No. 16, of course Sibelius 8.  I absolutely want to hear what might have been.  Composers/arrangers who have studied another composers style could certainly prepare a performance edition which is fine as long as everyone understands this is an interpretation.  I very much enjoy Scriabin/Nemtin's Mysterium for example which I believe the third part was Nemtin writing in a Scriabin late style.  I'm all for this if it is the only thing we can get of a formative/incomplete work from a major composer.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4317 on: November 07, 2019, 08:02:49 AM »
I'm a completest too and you might be surprised that virtually any composer has much discarded works especially in their juvenilia years.  Mahler had four student symphonies and I would LOVE to hear them (they were destroyed during the WWII bombings), some indications of a Shostakovich No. 16, of course Sibelius 8.  I absolutely want to hear what might have been.  Composers/arrangers who have studied another composers style could certainly prepare a performance edition which is fine as long as everyone understands this is an interpretation.  I very much enjoy Scriabin/Nemtin's Mysterium for example which I believe the third part was Nemtin writing in a Scriabin late style.  I'm all for this if it is the only thing we can get of a formative/incomplete work from a major composer.

I'm old enough to remember when Shostakovich died and remember, at the time, that there were some references to an incomplete 16th Symphony in the obituaries - but until your post I've heard no mention of it since.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4318 on: November 07, 2019, 08:31:58 AM »
Cross-posted from ‘New Releases’ thread:

Super excited for this early January release:



https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68280

I’ve really loved Brabbins’ RVW recordings so far. Definitely hope this recording is as good as the others.
“Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline relm1

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4319 on: November 07, 2019, 05:53:18 PM »
I'm old enough to remember when Shostakovich died and remember, at the time, that there were some references to an incomplete 16th Symphony in the obituaries - but until your post I've heard no mention of it since.

How much time went by before scraps of Sibelius 8 was heard?  What if the same was true with Shosti?  I would want to hear it even if it was in fragments.  I would even more so love to hear a composer who thoroughly understood him attempt to interpret what might have been.  AS LONG AS THEY THOROUGHLY UNDERSTOOD HIM, HIS STYLE, HIS WISHES.  Those who disagree, ignore the interpretation.  I fundamentally disagree with those who think we shouldn't try to imagine it.