Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Christo]

I think I've got it somewhere and recall it as being a solid enough performance. Amazingly he recorded Walton's First Symphony.

Me too, see to the right, but it's on Youtube too:
https://www.youtube.com/v/D5NwGFvZ23s

[JBS]

Talk of Boulez hoax cover reminds me that way back (say around 1985) I found a recording of the Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis by Karajan in a record shop. It seemed so bizarre, but I didn't have the money to splash out on possibly disasterous recordings. Has anyone heard this recording, and is it notably bad?

I have it as part of the big EMI Karajan set. He recorded it in 1953.  My memory of listening to it is a bit dim, so it probably was not noteable for anything either positive or negative.

[Roasted Swan]

I think I've got it somewhere and recall it as being a solid enough performance. Amazingly he recorded Walton's First Symphony.

One nominal Karajan/Walton 1 was a particularly convincing April  Fool - the old RAI recording seems pretty ropey to me although it has some adherents......

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Walton1_4574332.htm

[calyptorhynchus]

I listened to the KarajanTallis Fantasia on Youtube, but the sound was too old for me to pay much attention 

[Christo]

I listened to the KarajanTallis Fantasia on Youtube, but the sound was too old for me to pay much attention 

Yep, it's from 1910. Some here play even older stuff, don't know, Bach or someting.

[vandermolen]

From WAYLTN thread:
First listen before work 'A Pastoral Symphony':
I'm enjoying this warm-hearted performance enormously. The recording is beautiful, highlighting the solo woodwind instruments in particular. It is a while since I listened to this symphony. The third movement has great rhythmic drive, played faster, I think, than some other performances. I'm not sure that it will displace Previn's as my favourite performance but I'm pleased that I decided to get hold of it. So far I have enjoyed the first three symphonies and rate this cycle more highly than the ones by Manze and Elder (notwithstanding a fine No.3 there as well):

[Christo]

From WAYLTN thread:
First listen before work 'A Pastoral Symphony':
I'm enjoying this warm-hearted performance enormously. The recording is beautiful, highlighting the solo woodwind instruments in particular. It is a while since I listened to this symphony. The third movement has great rhythmic drive, played faster, I think, than some other performances. I'm not sure that it will displace Previn's as my favourite performance but I'm pleased that I decided to get hold of it. So far I have enjoyed the first three symphonies and rate this cycle more highly than the ones by Manze and Elder (notwithstanding a fine No.3 there as well):

Exactly the same experience here, played it this morning for the first time and was taken (not able to listen till the end). Definitely one of the better performances, and now on for No. 4.   

[Roasted Swan]

From WAYLTN thread:
First listen before work 'A Pastoral Symphony':
I'm enjoying this warm-hearted performance enormously. The recording is beautiful, highlighting the solo woodwind instruments in particular. It is a while since I listened to this symphony. The third movement has great rhythmic drive, played faster, I think, than some other performances. I'm not sure that it will displace Previn's as my favourite performance but I'm pleased that I decided to get hold of it. So far I have enjoyed the first three symphonies and rate this cycle more highly than the ones by Manze and Elder (notwithstanding a fine No.3 there as well):

My feeling is the No.3 on this disc is good to very good and the No.4 good (well-played etc) but lacking real fire and fury.

By the way - the 3rd movement here is slightly slower than Norrington/Davis/Handley but nearly identical to Boult

[vandermolen]

My feeling is the No.3 on this disc is good to very good and the No.4 good (well-played etc) but lacking real fire and fury.

By the way - the 3rd movement here is slightly slower than Norrington/Davis/Handley but nearly identical to Boult

Interesting RS. Thank you. Anyway the performance of 'A Pastoral Symphony' gave me great pleasure and I look forward to hearing it again. I found the Nortington recordings of the VW symphonies to be very unappealing, although Symphony No.3 not as bad as the rest. In self-consciously trying to present VW as 'a major European composer' in my view Norrington just made the music sound strangely unidiomatic. The cycle was never completed. On to Symphony No.4 next!

[Christo]

By the way - the 3rd movement here is slightly slower than Norrington/Davis/Handley but nearly identical to Boult

Nothing but Strict Science - a watch - can help us out:

Symphony No. 3 'A Pastoral' 1921         I. Molto moderato   II. Lento moderato   III. Moderato pesante; presto    IV. Lento
1.   Boult I / LPO 1952          09.37      08.11      06.19      11.05      
2.   Boult II / LPO 1968         09.45      07.27      06.19      10.08   
3.   Boult / BBC SO live 1966      09.48      08.01      06.20      11.01
4.   Previn / LSO 1971         11.07      09.21      06.30      11.01   
5.   Ormandy / Philadelphia live 1972      10.17      08.25      06.05      09.43      
6.   Thomson / LSO 1987         10.23      08.15      06.37      10.55
7.   Rozhdestvensky / USSR SSO 1988   11.42      08.35      07.33      10.14
8.   Handley / RLPO 1991         09.43      08.26      06.02      11.00
9.   Slatkin / PO 1991         09.59      09.07      06.02      11.10
10.   Bakels / BSO 1992         11.08      09.19      06.27      10.44   
11.   Davis / BBC SO 1996         09.43      07.49      06.12      10.46       
12.   Haitink / LPO 1996         10.20      09.25      07.26      11.51      
13.   Norrington / LPO 1997         09.21      08.50      06.06      11.10    
14.   Hickox / LSO 2002         10.43      10.27      06.36      11.20   
15.   Norrington / Concertgebouw live 2004   08.56      08.05      05.50      09.40      
16.   Elder / Hallé 2013         10.28      08.57      05.49      11.17      
17.   Manze / BBC SO live Proms 2014      11.41      09.10      06.16      11.28
18.   Manze / RLPO 2016         11.11      08.46      06.22      10.39    
19.   Kenjiro Matsunaga/OsakaSO live 2018   10.20      09.40      05.53      10.45
20.   Brabbyns / BBC SO 2020      10.33      08.58      06.17      11.41

Ergo: both Rozhdestvensky and Haitink much slower in the third movement (moderato pesante).

[vandermolen]

V interesting Johan. Thanks you for taking the trouble to do the comparative analysis.

[Mirror Image]

From WAYLTN thread:
First listen before work 'A Pastoral Symphony':
I'm enjoying this warm-hearted performance enormously. The recording is beautiful, highlighting the solo woodwind instruments in particular. It is a while since I listened to this symphony. The third movement has great rhythmic drive, played faster, I think, than some other performances. I'm not sure that it will displace Previn's as my favourite performance but I'm pleased that I decided to get hold of it. So far I have enjoyed the first three symphonies and rate this cycle more highly than the ones by Manze and Elder (notwithstanding a fine No.3 there as well):

I forgot to mention that I listened to Brabbins' performance of A Pastoral Symphony. I really dislike being the contrarian here, but I did not enjoy this performance at all. This symphony is one of my favorites (right up there with the 5th and 6th for me), but I found it too polite and mannered. The urgency just wasn't there that this 'symphonic requiem' needs. I have yet to hear anyone top Previn's scintillating performance, but I was quite impressed with the Elder performance with the Halle I heard a few years ago. It's also no surprise that Vaughan Williams doesn't get played too much by me these days. It seems I'm slowly moving away from many of the composers I tended to favor earlier on. Tastes do change (for better or for worse). I still think highly of the composer and wouldn't trade all the time I've spent absorbing and enjoying his music for anything. I don't want this to sound like my farewell to RVW, because it's certainly not, but this is what it ended up sounding like.

[vandermolen]

I forgot to mention that I listened to Brabbins' performance of A Pastoral Symphony. I really dislike being the contrarian here, but I did not enjoy this performance at all. This symphony is one of my favorites (right up there with the 5th and 6th for me), but I found it too polite and mannered. The urgency just wasn't there that this 'symphonic requiem' needs. I have yet to hear anyone top Previn's scintillating performance, but I was quite impressed with the Elder performance with the Halle I heard a few years ago. It's also no surprise that Vaughan Williams doesn't get played too much by me these days. It seems I'm slowly moving away from many of the composers I tended to favor earlier on. Tastes do change (for better or for worse). I still think highly of the composer and wouldn't trade all the time I've spent absorbing and enjoying his music for anything. I don't want this to sound like my farewell to RVW, because it's certainly not, but this is what it ended up sounding like.

Vaughan Williams recognised this himself, telling the young composer Arthur Butterworth, an early enthusiast, 'if later on my music does not mean as much to you, you should not think that this is in any way disloyal to me.' I find that there are times when I listen to his music a lot and times when I listen less often. The new Brabbins recording has rekindled my admiration for 'A Pastoral Symphony' but I'd like to listen to the Elder again. The fact that we have different views here is inevitable and a positive as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't expect anyone (other than Christo  ) to share my view of VW.

[Roasted Swan]

I forgot to mention that I listened to Brabbins' performance of A Pastoral Symphony. I really dislike being the contrarian here, but I did not enjoy this performance at all. This symphony is one of my favorites (right up there with the 5th and 6th for me), but I found it too polite and mannered. The urgency just wasn't there that this 'symphonic requiem' needs. I have yet to hear anyone top Previn's scintillating performance, but I was quite impressed with the Elder performance with the Halle I heard a few years ago. It's also no surprise that Vaughan Williams doesn't get played too much by me these days. It seems I'm slowly moving away from many of the composers I tended to favor earlier on. Tastes do change (for better or for worse). I still think highly of the composer and wouldn't trade all the time I've spent absorbing and enjoying his music for anything. I don't want this to sound like my farewell to RVW, because it's certainly not, but this is what it ended up sounding like.

What I do find remarkable is just how well in every respect the Previn recording stands up.  A 50 year old recording has no right to sound as good as this!! I'm a very big Previn fan anyway - in every field he just seems to "get" it - but is still worthy of comment how well a refugee from Germany brought up on West Coast America on cinema and jazz utterly and intuitively understood the RVW idiom.  Perhaps proof that great music knows no national boundaries......

[Mirror Image]

What I do find remarkable is just how well in every respect the Previn recording stands up.  A 50 year old recording has no right to sound as good as this!! I'm a very big Previn fan anyway - in every field he just seems to "get" it - but is still worthy of comment how well a refugee from Germany brought up on West Coast America on cinema and jazz utterly and intuitively understood the RVW idiom.  Perhaps proof that great music knows no national boundaries......

Yes, indeed. Given Previn's affinity for British music and his own background, it does seem a bit odd how well he does in this music.

[Mirror Image]

Vaughan Williams recognised this himself, telling the young composer Arthur Butterworth, an early enthusiast, 'if later on my music does not mean as much to you, you should not think that this is in any way disloyal to me.' I find that there are times when I listen to his music a lot and times when I listen less often. The new Brabbins recording has rekindled my admiration for 'A Pastoral Symphony' but I'd like to listen to the Elder again. The fact that we have different views here is inevitable and a positive as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't expect anyone (other than Christo  ) to share my view of VW.

Very true, Jeffrey. I'll probably circle back around to RVW at some point (I tend to listen in cycles). I'm glad that you have a newfound enthusiasm for A Pastoral Symphony. It is a remarkable piece of music no doubt about it and totally unlike any other symphony I've heard from a British composer. Now that I'm thinking about it, its hushed mood reminds me of Ives' Symphony No. 3, "The Camp Meeting" --- not in the sense that both works share a similar musical language, but that the kind of atmosphere found in this Ives symphony mirrors RVW's Pastoral. It'd be interesting to listen to them side-by-side.

[Irons]

I forgot to mention that I listened to Brabbins' performance of A Pastoral Symphony. I really dislike being the contrarian here, but I did not enjoy this performance at all. This symphony is one of my favorites (right up there with the 5th and 6th for me), but I found it too polite and mannered. The urgency just wasn't there that this 'symphonic requiem' needs. I have yet to hear anyone top Previn's scintillating performance, but I was quite impressed with the Elder performance with the Halle I heard a few years ago. It's also no surprise that Vaughan Williams doesn't get played too much by me these days. It seems I'm slowly moving away from many of the composers I tended to favor earlier on. Tastes do change (for better or for worse). I still think highly of the composer and wouldn't trade all the time I've spent absorbing and enjoying his music for anything. I don't want this to sound like my farewell to RVW, because it's certainly not, but this is what it ended up sounding like.

It is like saying goodbye to an old friend and is upsetting. Happened to me this week listening to Prokofiev's 5th Symphony. Sadly the magic has gone, a favourite which I have listened many times - too many. The one consolation is that there are a constant supply of other and unheard works to explore.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I find that there are times when I listen to his music a lot and times when I listen less often.

I do that with every composer I like. Re the Pastoral, I still like Haitink's version a lot. It's a leisurely ramble, but with lots of nice detail and a dark woodsy atmosphere that captures the underlying melancholy quite well.

[vers la flamme]

It is like saying goodbye to an old friend and is upsetting. Happened to me this week listening to Prokofiev's 5th Symphony. Sadly the magic has gone, a favourite which I have listened many times - too many. The one consolation is that there are a constant supply of other and unheard works to explore.

You're making me depressed, but you're right that this is part of life. Sometimes I wish novelty would not play such a big role in the appreciation and enjoyment that I derive from music. It would certainly save me a lot of money.

Anyway, just wanted to join the chorus of praise for André Previn's recording of the Pastoral Symphony. I listened to it last night, it's phenomenal. I picked it up on a whim at a record store about a year ago, loved it so much that I ended up getting the complete Previn RVW cycle. However, I don't enjoy any of the other symphonies nearly as much. I don't know if Previn is to blame or if Vaughan Williams is. I'll keep trying with the symphony cycle. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. But I have a feeling there is something great in Vaughan Williams' music that I just haven't discovered yet (outside of the Pastoral Symphony which, if I haven't mentioned already, is a work that I love and hold close to my heart).

I just got this Decca 2CD the other day for $1 at a local record store:



I love the Vaughan Williams performances. Sir Neville and the Academy are perfect for this music.

[Christo]

You're making me depressed, but you're right that this is part of life. Sometimes I wish novelty would not play such a big role in the appreciation and enjoyment that I derive from music. It would certainly save me a lot of money.

Anyway, just wanted to join the chorus of praise for André Previn's recording of the Pastoral Symphony. I listened to it last night, it's phenomenal. I picked it up on a whim at a record store about a year ago, loved it so much that I ended up getting the complete Previn RVW cycle. However, I don't enjoy any of the other symphonies nearly as much. I don't know if Previn is to blame or if Vaughan Williams is. I'll keep trying with the symphony cycle. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. But I have a feeling there is something great in Vaughan Williams' music that I just haven't discovered yet (outside of the Pastoral Symphony which, if I haven't mentioned already, is a work that I love and hold close to my heart).

So great to read, simply because of everything you write. Yes, Previn's A Pastoral is something athmospheric, very special. And yes, there is really, always, even if we don't see it, "something great in Vaughan Wiliams' music that we just haven't discovered yet'. Always, period.

He will end up, after one century or more, to be recognized as what he really is, without knowing it himself, because times were really different in his times as they are in ours, the "Bach of the 20th Century". Just as direct and simple, serving, just as recognizably his very own voice, even in the tiniest of his pieces, but certainly in the biggest of his pieces, the Pilgrim's Progress and most of the symphonies. ;-)