Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[aligreto]

Symphony No. 9

This is a large work in more ways than one. For me, it sweeps and explores large expanses and horizons of the Vaughan-Williams musical world. The musical language is very interesting and engaging. I also find the juxtaposition of tones to be very absorbing. I would say that the overall tone is one of controlled turbulence.


Boult:





Boult's presentation of the first movement is suitably assertive and gentle in the appropriate passages. He is always lyrical and expansive. He has great control on the music but without ever stifling it. He is literally directing it where it wants to go itself. The second movement has a wonderfully disconcerting undercurrent to it which Boult explores and presents very well. Boult's version of the Scherzo reinforces and emphasises the atmospheric and dramatic nature of the overall tone of the work wonderfully well. After the power and intensity of what has gone previously that lyrical but somewhat restive final movement is a wonderful contrast. Boult lets the music float but never to drift. He rather guides it along aiding in the gradual build up to a fine conclusion and resolution.

Boult delivers a very fine presentation of this wonderful work. One feels that he is almost messaging the music his presentation is so well rounded.



Previn:





Previn's presentation of the first movement is crisp, taut and tension filled. There is a sense of underlying power there that is controlled and not yet ready to be unleashed. The second movement begins to unleash the power in the music by giving a very fine, atmospheric and meditative performance of this sometimes poignant and intense music. Power and intensity once again prevail in the Scherzo in an ardent and dramatic performance. Previn's version of the final movement is not as delicate as Boult's version. Previn, for me, seems to be more concerned with the continuity of the overall tone of the work [which is valid]. I am getting a greater sense of the disconcerting undertones that prevail earlier in the performance with Previn. Previn, for me, has a much more ardent and purposeful approach to this movement and he succeeds very well in coming to a conclusive and definite resolution of the work.

I remember when I first heard this Previn cycle, Symphony No. 9 was my favourite performance in the set. I am not so sure that I would put it in that position so far ahead now but it certainly is an engaging and compelling one. It is a robust, atmospheric and profound presentation.   

[Christo]

Symphony No. 9
This is a large work in more ways than one. For me, it sweeps and explores large expanses and horizons of the Vaughan-Williams musical world. The musical language is very interesting and engaging. I also find the juxtaposition of tones to be very absorbing. I would say that the overall tone is one of controlled turbulence.

Boult:

Boult's presentation of the first movement is suitably assertive and gentle in the appropriate passages. He is always lyrical and expansive. He has great control on the music but without ever stifling it. He is literally directing it where it wants to go itself. The second movement has a wonderfully disconcerting undercurrent to it which Boult explores and presents very well. Boult's version of the Scherzo reinforces and emphasises the atmospheric and dramatic nature of the overall tone of the work wonderfully well. After the power and intensity of what has gone previously that lyrical but somewhat restive final movement is a wonderful contrast. Boult lets the music float but never to drift. He rather guides it along aiding in the gradual build up to a fine conclusion and resolution.

Boult delivers a very fine presentation of this wonderful work. One feels that he is almost messaging the music his presentation is so well rounded.

Previn:


Previn's presentation of the first movement is crisp, taut and tension filled. There is a sense of underlying power there that is controlled and not yet ready to be unleashed. The second movement begins to unleash the power in the music by giving a very fine, atmospheric and meditative performance of this sometimes poignant and intense music. Power and intensity once again prevail in the Scherzo in an ardent and dramatic performance. Previn's version of the final movement is not as delicate as Boult's version. Previn, for me, seems to be more concerned with the continuity of the overall tone of the work [which is valid]. I am getting a greater sense of the disconcerting undertones that prevail earlier in the performance with Previn. Previn, for me, has a much more ardent and purposeful approach to this movement and he succeeds very well in coming to a conclusive and definite resolution of the work.

I remember when I first heard this Previn cycle, Symphony No. 9 was my favourite performance in the set. I am not so sure that I would put it in that position so far ahead now but it certainly is an engaging and compelling one. It is a robust, atmospheric and profound presentation.   

Great to read all these 'fresh' and very interesting observations, many thanks, much appreciated. I came to regard No. 9 highly over the years, about as high as 'A Pastoral' and No. 6, my other two favourites. I can say that Stokowski, Boult I, Previn and Thomson are my preferred performances, but even the three (!) attempts by Andrew Davis are all very much worth exploring as is the one by Vernon Handley (his cycle overall very good too, perhaps too underrated, as is Bryden Thomson's who's my No. 1 in most symphonies).   

[vandermolen]

Interesting comparative discussion Fergus which I enjoyed reading. I think that Previn's No.9 is a strong performance but it was not one that I often listened to. I think that Boult's 1958 performance has a kind of granitic quality which appeals to me (I hesitate to use the word 'craggy'  ) and his later EMI recording has a reflective quality which appeals just as much to me in a different way. I loved the old LP coupled with the (definitely craggy) Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune and the picture of Constable's painting of Stonehenge on the sleeve cover (you can now get a Japanese CD of that release). One recent version which impressed me was by Andrew Davis, not so much his new Chandos version or his old Warner version (which I both like) but the one given away with BBC Music Magazine.
Here it is again with Stonehenge on the cover:

PS this post crossed with Christo's interesting one above. I'm glad Johan that you rate the Stokowski recording highly as well.
Handley's No.9 has those wonderful harps at the end.
Ursula Vaughan Williams once wrote to me ( 0:)) referring to the Ninth Symphony as 'one of Ralph's strange and magical ones' and interestingly said that he told her that, in the symphony, he was 'burying his old colleagues' (Finzi had recently died and part of the Ninth Symphony had been composed at Finzi's house).

[Irons]

Interesting comparative discussion Fergus which I enjoyed reading. I think that Previn's No.9 is a strong performance but it was not one that I often listened to. I think that Boult's 1958 performance has a kind of granitic quality which appeals to me (I hesitate to use the word 'craggy'  ) and his later EMI recording has a reflective quality which appeals just as much to me in a different way. I loved the old LP coupled with the (definitely craggy) Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune and the picture of Constable's painting of Stonehenge on the sleeve cover (you can now get a Japanese CD of that release). One recent version which impressed me was by Andrew Davis, not so much his new Chandos version or his old Warner version (which I both like) but one given away with BBC Music Magazine.

Which coincidentally I listened to last night. Luckily the Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune is placed before the symphony otherwise I don't think I would have bothered with it, which would have been my loss. The Fantasia is a rare hybrid of piano, orchestra and choir. The only composer I can think who wrote a similar piece is Beethoven. The piano gets plenty of time as a solo instrument and Peter Katin plays superbly. A work I have not encountered before and greatly enjoyed. I managed not to mention "craggy" but it is.    

[vandermolen]

Which coincidentally I listened to last night. Luckily the Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune is placed before the symphony otherwise I don't think I would have bothered with it, which would have been my loss. The Fantasia is a rare hybrid of piano, orchestra and choir. The only composer I can think who wrote a similar piece is Beethoven. The piano gets plenty of time as a solo instrument and Peter Katin plays superbly. A work I have not encountered before and greatly enjoyed. I managed not to mention "craggy" but it is.    

Interesting Lol. Glad you liked it. My brother slightly undermined my enjoyment of it by telling me that it reminded him of the children's record 'Sparky's Magic Piano' 

For me that LP is one of the great VW discs.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Interesting comparative discussion Fergus which I enjoyed reading. I think that Previn's No.9 is a strong performance but it was not one that I often listened to. I think that Boult's 1958 performance has a kind of granitic quality which appeals to me (I hesitate to use the word 'craggy'  ) and his later EMI recording has a reflective quality which appeals just as much to me in a different way. I loved the old LP coupled with the (definitely craggy) Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune and the picture of Constable's painting of Stonehenge on the sleeve cover (you can now get a Japanese CD of that release). One recent version which impressed me was by Andrew Davis, not so much his new Chandos version or his old Warner version (which I both like) but the one given away with BBC Music Magazine.
Here it is again with Stonehenge on the cover:

PS this post crossed with Christo's interesting one above. I'm glad Johan that you rate the Stokowski recording highly as well.
Handley's No.9 has those wonderful harps at the end.
Ursula Vaughan Williams once wrote to me ( 0:)) referring to the Ninth Symphony as 'one of Ralph's strange and magical ones' and interestingly said that he told her that, in the symphony, he was 'burying his old colleagues' (Finzi had recently died and part of the Ninth Symphony had been composed at Finzi's house).

I'll keep an eye out for that BBC one [I sometimes run across them at record shops, etc.].  How old is that one Jeffrey?

And lucky you!  How did it come to pass that you received a letter from Ursula Vaughan Williams? 

Best wishes,

PD

p.s.  Currently trying to get together shopping list for grocery store(s)....not looking forward to this today.   

[aligreto]

Great to read all these 'fresh' and very interesting observations, many thanks, much appreciated.

Interesting comparative discussion Fergus which I enjoyed reading.

Cheers guys. I was interested to see Johan's 'fresh' remark which immediately set me thinking. I think that they are, for me, a genuinely fresh look at these works because I have not listened to them in many years. I had listened on and off back then with mixed results. However, with some gentle prodding from Jeffrey, I decided to have another go and I now see them in a different light. Why so, I really do not know but there has flowed, in the intervening years, much music under that proverbial bridge and with a greater and wider listening experience the Vaughan Williams musical language now has a different appeal for me now. It has been an enjoyable and a definite worthwhile experience.

[vandermolen]

I'll keep an eye out for that BBC one [I sometimes run across them at record shops, etc.].  How old is that one Jeffrey?

And lucky you!  How did it come to pass that you received a letter from Ursula Vaughan Williams? 

Best wishes,

PD

p.s.  Currently trying to get together shopping list for grocery store(s)....not looking forward to this today.   

Hi PD,
It's from 2011 but the performance is from the Proms in 2008.
I wrote a fan letter to her about her husband's music when I was 17. She sent a lovely reply and an inscribed copy of VW's book 'National Music and other Essays' which is still a treasured possession. On and off we communicated a bit by letter afterwards. I mean that I wrote to her and she always sent interesting replies.

Good luck with the shopping. Plenty of evidence of panic buying at the local supermarket.

[Karl Henning]

I'll keep an eye out for that BBC one [I sometimes run across them at record shops, etc.].  How old is that one Jeffrey?

And lucky you!  How did it come to pass that you received a letter from Ursula Vaughan Williams? 

Best wishes,

PD

p.s.  Currently trying to get together shopping list for grocery store(s)....not looking forward to this today.   

Good luck!

[aukhawk]

I don't have the unbridled enthusiasm for Previn's recording of the 3rd Symphony that some here have, but I have been notified that it is now available in a variety of high-res formats from HDTT, with the first 3 minutes available as a free sample download in 24/96.  The Tuba Concerto is included.  The cover art is a little strange ...


HDTT page link

This is not a recommendation, and I haven't listened to the free download.  In this case there is no indication as to the source - usually they do state in general terms whether its a master tape or an early unplayed vinyl or whatever.  I have bought two of their offerings, one (Sibelius 6 & 7 / Karajan) sounds entirely satisfactory and one (Shostakovich 1 & Cello Concerto / Ormandy) satisfactory with some reservations - and having sampled a few more via their free download offers have been able to decide against buying in those cases.

[Karl Henning]

I don't have the unbridled enthusiasm for Previn's recording of the 3rd Symphony that some here have, but I have been notified that it is now available in a variety of high-res formats from HDTT, with the first 3 minutes available as a free sample download in 24/96.  The Tuba Concerto is included.  The cover art is a little strange ...


HDTT page link

This is not a recommendation, and I haven't listened to the free download.  In this case there is no indication as to the source - usually they do state in general terms whether its a master tape or an early unplayed vinyl or whatever.  I have bought two of their offerings, one (Sibelius 6 & 7 / Karajan) sounds entirely satisfactory and one (Shostakovich 1 & Cello Concerto / Ormandy) satisfactory with some reservations - and having sampled a few more via their free download offers have been able to decide against buying in those cases.

I'd call my appreciation of the Previn recording of A Pastoral Symphony, gently bridled, indeed.

[Roasted Swan]

I don't have the unbridled enthusiasm for Previn's recording of the 3rd Symphony that some here have, but I have been notified that it is now available in a variety of high-res formats from HDTT, with the first 3 minutes available as a free sample download in 24/96.  The Tuba Concerto is included.  The cover art is a little strange ...


HDTT page link

This is not a recommendation, and I haven't listened to the free download.  In this case there is no indication as to the source - usually they do state in general terms whether its a master tape or an early unplayed vinyl or whatever.  I have bought two of their offerings, one (Sibelius 6 & 7 / Karajan) sounds entirely satisfactory and one (Shostakovich 1 & Cello Concerto / Ormandy) satisfactory with some reservations - and having sampled a few more via their free download offers have been able to decide against buying in those cases.

I remember some time ago - I think it was when Amazon still encouraged some kind of debate! - one contributor was very damming HDTT - specifically in regard to the famous Horenstein/LSO/Unicorn/Mahler 3 which while claiming some kind of hi-fidelity  remastering was really just a smoke and mirrors messing around with basic levels and EQ'ing.  To the point where the original engineer (Bob Auger??) had complained about their (HDTT's) mis-management of his original work.  I've rather steered clear of their - rather expensive - media ever since.  Any experience anyone?

[aukhawk]

I think if a recording is more than 50 years old I really question what a Hi-res transfer can possibly bring to the party, in part because the original master tapes are likely to have deteriorated beyond help over that time, so any source material is likely to be 2nd or 3rd generation at best.  The Previn recording hasn't quite reached that arbitrary threshold yet - but as I say there is no information about the source material used for this issue.  The Horenstein/Mahler was a pretty horrible recording (1969? I was never a fan of Bob Auger's signature dry sound) and I think anyone remastering would be forgiven for trying to help it a bit.

As it happens I listened to the Shostakovich Cello Concerto only a couple of hours ago, and of the four works that I have from HDTT (ie 2 CDs-worth) this is the one that I feel has come up the best - though I do think the original is a remarkably good recording anyway, totally belying its date (1960) and label (CBS).  Its companion piece, the 1st Symphony, is marred by 'gating' which is audible even on speakers, and much more obvious on headphones.  Gating is a rapid expansion of low-level audio, as a process it is the inverse of limiting, and the audible effect is of ambient noise cutting out to black, eg between movements, and if too crudely done some reverberation tails get chopped.  The original recording - again very good in its own right - is far preferable to the HDTT version.

In the case of the classic Sibelius coupling from Karajan (date 1967), to my ears there is no difference to hear without detailed A/B comparison - I was looking for more bass heft in the 6th, which always sounds very thin to me, but it is not noticeably improved. 

I also wanted to get the Shostakovich Stepan Razin but on downloading the free sample I found it was quite noticeably compressed - just streaming this on Spotify sounds better (and also better than my own needledrop), so I was able to save my money.

But I wouldn't point the finger only at HDTT - I took an interest in the Hi-res release of Dvorak's 6th Symphony / Kertesz (rec 1965) obtainable from Presto, and compared just the 1st movement of that with various other digital releases and re-releases of the same recording, and my own needledrop.  Surface noise aside, the Hi-res release and my needledrop sound indistinguishable.  The other (older) digital releases are less compressed, which indirectly leads to them sounding a bit thinner and less good.  The Hi-res release has been subjected to mild compression in the louder sections, and also mild expansion in the very quiet passages - but most of this is only really evident on visual inspection of the audio waveforms.  The tweaking such as it is, is generally beneficial to the sound.

[aligreto]

Cross post from the Listening Thread:


Vaughan-Williams: Concerto Grosso & Oboe Concerto [Nicklin/Marriner]





Concerto Grosso [Marriner] I like the straightforward nature of the musical language [given the nature of its commission] and the variety of tones in this work. It is an interesting and pleasant listen.

Oboe Concerto [Nicklin/Marriner] Wistful and haunting, lyrical and evocative are all adjectives that come to mind when I hear the first movement. The middle movement is charming and engaging. The final movement is initially like a runaway breeze which changes to a light, warm and sultry puff of air. The tempo picks up again somewhat and we conclude with something of a pastoral song on a light breeze finished off by a flock of chattering birds. That is what it sounds like to me but, hey, blame the wine if you want to! 

[Marc]

[...]

Oboe Concerto [Nicklin/Marriner] Wistful and haunting, lyrical and evocative are all adjectives that come to mind when I hear the first movement. The middle movement is charming and engaging. The final movement is initially like a runaway breeze which changes to a light, warm and sultry puff of air. The tempo picks up again somewhat and we conclude with something of a pastoral song on a light breeze finished off by a flock of chattering birds. That is what it sounds like to me but, hey, blame the wine if you want to! 

Au contraire. Have another bottle!

[Karl Henning]

Au contraire. Have another bottle!

Or: Sure! Have another bottle! 

[Irons]

Cross post from the Listening Thread:


Vaughan-Williams: Concerto Grosso & Oboe Concerto [Nicklin/Marriner]





Concerto Grosso [Marriner] I like the straightforward nature of the musical language [given the nature of its commission] and the variety of tones in this work. It is an interesting and pleasant listen.

Oboe Concerto [Nicklin/Marriner] Wistful and haunting, lyrical and evocative are all adjectives that come to mind when I hear the first movement. The middle movement is charming and engaging. The final movement is initially like a runaway breeze which changes to a light, warm and sultry puff of air. The tempo picks up again somewhat and we conclude with something of a pastoral song on a light breeze finished off by a flock of chattering birds. That is what it sounds like to me but, hey, blame the wine if you want to! 

A nice LP. The two Warlock pieces are good too. Beside Capriol Suite I like the Serenade, a tribute to his idol, Delius.

Enjoy your wine as long not in a pub, restaurant or any other place other then home.

[Marc]

Or: Sure! Have another bottle! 

Sure!

Or: Whatever. Have another bottle.

Seriously now: I meant what I wrote (I think), even though I had no wine myself. It's nice to read comments or reviews with impressions that include all senses.

[Karl Henning]

Sure!

Or: Whatever. Have another bottle.

Seriously now: I meant what I wrote (I think), even though I had no wine myself. It's nice to read comments or reviews with impressions that include all senses.

Aye, and there was nothing wrong with what you wrote!

[aligreto]

Cheers guys. Just to be clear there was actually no wine involved at any point. I have always been partial to an oboe concerto. The Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto just hit a perticular spot at the time. This evening I enjoyed the R Strauss Oboe Concerto. There is just something wonderfully airy and flighty about the instrument in concertante mode that I find really appealing. The Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto is a case in point; airy, flighty and sometimes ethereal