Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Karl Henning]

I must confess, I have never heard a single note of A Sea Symphony. I do not enjoy chorus and orchestra music past Bach (or maybe Mozart and some small scale neoclassical works) and particularly find a Baritone (or Bass) operatic voice unpleasant. The seventh symphony is demoted due to the use of a wind machine. I formerly considered the third symphony to be a weak link, until hearing Andre Previn's luminous recording (on RCA).

At the risk of veering of-topic: The Shostakovich 13^th?, 14^th? The Execution of Stepan Razin?

[Spotted Horses]

At the risk of veering of-topic: The Shostakovich 13^th?, 14^th? The Execution of Stepan Razin?

Never even considered listening to them. 

[Mirror Image]

I must confess, I have never heard a single note of A Sea Symphony. I do not enjoy chorus and orchestra music past Bach (or maybe Mozart and some small scale neoclassical works) and particularly find a Baritone (or Bass) operatic voice unpleasant. The seventh symphony is demoted due to the use of a wind machine. I formerly considered the third symphony to be a weak link, until hearing Andre Previn's luminous recording (on RCA).

Some various works that use the wind machine (copied-and-pasted from Wikipedia):

Jean-Philippe Rameau: Les Boréades
Giacomo Puccini: La Fanciulla del West
Gioachino Rossini: The Barber of Seville
Richard Wagner: Der fliegende Holländer
Richard Strauss: Don Quixote, Eine Alpensinfonie, Josephslegende, Die ägyptische Helena, and Die Frau ohne Schatten
Edward Elgar: The Starlight Express
Maurice Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé, L'enfant et les sortilèges, The orchestration version of Gaspard de la nuit - Scarbo
Gottfried Huppertz: "Chronicles of the Gray House"
Olivier Messiaen: Des canyons aux étoiles..., Saint François d'Assise and Éclairs sur l'au-delà...
Arnold Schoenberg: Die Jakobsleiter
Darius Milhaud: Les choëphores
Benjamin Britten: Noye's Fludde
Gyorgy Ligeti: Le Grand Macabre
Ralph Vaughan Williams: Sinfonia antartica
Ferde Grofé: Grand Canyon Suite
Jerry Goldsmith: The Blue Max
Philip Sparke: Music Of The Spheres
Fazıl Say: Symphony No 3 Universe
Michael Tippett: Symphony No. 4

Honestly, I can't fathom disliking a piece just because it uses a wind machine. It can be quite an effective orchestral "color" as long as it's not overdone. For example, one of my favorite moments in Strauss' Don Quixote is The Ride through the Air, which uses it to extravagant effect. I can't imagine anyone not getting a rise out of this particular movement, especially in a live setting.

As for your disliking of vocals, this is something the younger version of me could sympathize with you about, but nowadays I simply couldn't, because I find that while classical vocals do take some getting used to, that, if done tastefully and with a pleasing timbre, they can move me. I mean let's take something as obvious as Strauss' Vier letzte Lieder. If you get nothing from this work and the emotion that a fine soprano can invoke within it, I have to wonder what the hell does move you? I've come to love many vocal works and I hope that one day you can, too.

[LKB]

Indeed, never say never...

[Karl Henning]

Some various works that use the wind machine (copied-and-pasted from Wikipedia):

[snip]
Maurice Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé, L'enfant et les sortilèges, The orchestration version of Gaspard de la nuit - Scarbo

Well, as we've now careened off-topic (for which I certainly don't fault you, John ... probably I am responsible, as having picked up a tangent): in whose orchestration? (my perhaps faulty recollection being that Ravel himself did not arrange Gaspard for orchestra.)

Irreverent aside: Is Ferde Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite "serious music?" Asking for a friend.

Entirely puny effort to honor the topic: Yesterday & today, I have richly enjoyed Barbirolli's 1967 recording of A London Symphony. And I am so glad that our spotted horses has seen the light viz. A Pastoral Symphony. 

[DavidW]

At the risk of veering of-topic: The Shostakovich 13^th?, 14^th? The Execution of Stepan Razin?

That is funny you say that because the 14th has just came out of nowhere to get stuck in my head.  I haven't listened to it in either months or years but there it is in my brain!

[Mirror Image]

Well, as we've now careened off-topic (for which I certainly don't fault you, John ... probably I am responsible, as having picked up a tangent): in whose orchestration? (my perhaps faulty recollection being that Ravel himself did not arrange Gaspard for orchestra.)

Irreverent aside: Is Ferde Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite "serious music?" Asking for a friend.

I don't think Grofé is serious music at all, but goodness is it fun! As for the Ravel Gaspard orchestration, I'm not sure who orchestrated it, but I'm pressed for time, so Google will have to be your friend here.

[André]

I don't think Grofé is serious music at all, but goodness is it fun! As for the Ravel Gaspard orchestration, I'm not sure who orchestrated it, but I'm pressed for time, so Google will have to be your friend here.

Marius Constant did it. Slatkin recorded it for Naxos - and presumably others I'm not aware of.

[Mirror Image]

Marius Constant did it. Slatkin recorded it for Naxos - and presumably others I'm not aware of.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Karl Henning]

Marius Constant did it.

Of Twilight Zone theme fame!

[Karl Henning]

That is funny you say that because the 14th has just came out of nowhere to get stuck in my head.  I haven't listened to it in either months or years but there it is in my brain!

I am not really surprised: stunning piece!

[calyptorhynchus]

Some various works that use the wind machine (copied-and-pasted from Wikipedia):

Jean-Philippe Rameau: Les Boréades
Giacomo Puccini: La Fanciulla del West
Gioachino Rossini: The Barber of Seville
Richard Wagner: Der fliegende Holländer
Richard Strauss: Don Quixote, Eine Alpensinfonie, Josephslegende, Die ägyptische Helena, and Die Frau ohne Schatten
Edward Elgar: The Starlight Express
Maurice Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé, L'enfant et les sortilèges, The orchestration version of Gaspard de la nuit - Scarbo
Gottfried Huppertz: "Chronicles of the Gray House"
Olivier Messiaen: Des canyons aux étoiles..., Saint François d'Assise and Éclairs sur l'au-delà...
Arnold Schoenberg: Die Jakobsleiter
Darius Milhaud: Les choëphores
Benjamin Britten: Noye's Fludde
Gyorgy Ligeti: Le Grand Macabre
Ralph Vaughan Williams: Sinfonia antartica
Ferde Grofé: Grand Canyon Suite
Jerry Goldsmith: The Blue Max
Philip Sparke: Music Of The Spheres
Fazıl Say: Symphony No 3 Universe
Michael Tippett: Symphony No. 4

+ Havergal Brian Symphony No.10.

[relm1]

I think my general problem is with the work itself, but I'll go back and give the Previn a listen. I don't like Hickox's RVW on Chandos much. I do like his earlier EMI recordings. His Job is still a long-standing favorite of mine.

I understand.  Just an FYI - Hickox didn't do No. 9 on Chandos.  He died before but performed it in concert and I thought it was great but it isn't part of the chandos cycle.  That instead went to a lame Andrew Davis performance.  I think you should listen to No. 9 from my remastering of Previn/LSO.

[Mirror Image]

I understand.  Just an FYI - Hickox didn't do No. 9 on Chandos.  He died before but performed it in concert and I thought it was great but it isn't part of the chandos cycle.  That instead went to a lame Andrew Davis performance.  I think you should listen to No. 9 from my remastering of Previn/LSO.

Ah okay, but your remastered of Previn/LSO? I thought Sony did a nice job on their budget remastered set, so I'm content with it.

[vandermolen]

I understand.  Just an FYI - Hickox didn't do No. 9 on Chandos.  He died before but performed it in concert and I thought it was great but it isn't part of the chandos cycle.  That instead went to a lame Andrew Davis performance.  I think you should listen to No. 9 from my remastering of Previn/LSO.

I was at that concert featuring Hickox conducting No.9 - what a shame that it wasn't recorded.

[Irons]

I will listen to No.4 again Lol. While recognising its greatness it has lost some of its appeal to me compared with No.6, which I prefer. I think that placing 'In the Fen Country' between the two turbulent symphonies was a clever move and I think that it's a fine performance.
I think that my rank order of VW symphonies would now be:
No 6
No 9
No 2
No 1
No 8
No 7
No 5
No 4
No 3

I think it has more to do with me Jeffrey and less the performance. I have been guilty of thinking the 4th a poor relation to the 6th instead of valuating the work on it's own terms. Though lacking the raw energy of other performances in a way the more structured approach of Wilson came as a revelation.
I could not begin to put the symphonies in any order of preference, 1st aside - which one day the penny may drop with that too.

[relm1]

I was at that concert featuring Hickox conducting No.9 - what a shame that it wasn't recorded.

That is a shame.  It was far superior to the Andrew Davis performance they used to close out an otherwise fine cycle. 

[relm1]

I've fallen under the spell of No. 3.  What a deeply moving work.  It's so gorgeous and unique.  Makes me want to do a deep dive in to why it compels my attention.  I've heard it multiple times but for some reason, right now it really resonated with me.  All the recordings I've heard have been excellent.  They are Boult, Previn, Hickox.  They all seem to penetrate this work at a deeper level.  Those performances seem to transcend the notes.  That is what makes RVW one of my top five favorite composers.  The subtext.  On the surface, the music is very enjoyable, but there is always a deeper meaning to the music.  Each new recording or performance seems to reveal some nuance I've never caught before.  No. 3 is such a gem and really connected with me now more than any other time I've heard it. 

[Maestro267]

+ Havergal Brian Symphony No.10.

I thought that was a thunder sheet, not a wind machine.

Thread duty: Wound up with the Haitink symphonies box last week and started work on it today with No. 8.

[vandermolen]

I've fallen under the spell of No. 3.  What a deeply moving work.  It's so gorgeous and unique.  Makes me want to do a deep dive in to why it compels my attention.  I've heard it multiple times but for some reason, right now it really resonated with me.  All the recordings I've heard have been excellent.  They are Boult, Previn, Hickox.  They all seem to penetrate this work at a deeper level.  Those performances seem to transcend the notes.  That is what makes RVW one of my top five favorite composers.  The subtext.  On the surface, the music is very enjoyable, but there is always a deeper meaning to the music.  Each new recording or performance seems to reveal some nuance I've never caught before.  No. 3 is such a gem and really connected with me now more than any other time I've heard it.

Very interesting analysis, with which I very much agree. I don't know any other recording which has the depth of understanding of Previn's LSO account. Elder and Boult (Decca) are also very good.

The Proms concerts this year commemorates VW's 150th birthday with several of his works featured, including symphonies 1 and 4, the Tuba Concerto and, of course, the Lark Ascending and Tallis. The Proms programme features some articles about VW. I'm not sure that I'll get to any of the concerts but the one featuring Carwithen's 'Bishop Rock', Grace Williams's 'Sea Pictures' and VW's 'Sea Symphony' interests me.