Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Roasted Swan]

The Hurwitz ripped apart Elder's RVW recently and this is an opinion of his I whole-heartedly share:

https://www.youtube.com/v/jrrABqNJBYE

I could do without his diatribes against the British press, which are well documented, but the general jest of what he's saying about Elder I certainly agree with, although as I mentioned many times already, I do like his performance of A Pastoral Symphony. Something that is frustrating about this new RVW Elder box set is there aren't any of the couplings that originally appeared on the individual releases found in this set. What the hell? Lazy record label.

The box set in question:

As ever it is not the general content of this kind of invective but the sneering manner of it "Elder is rubbish, the British press are biased fools" etc that absolutely riles me.  Also, when the Elder cycle might not be as good as some (let's ignore the holy sepulchre of St Leonard de Slatkin who must be worshipped on every occasion) neither is it as unrelentingly bad as Hurwitz proposes.  For that matter neither is Haitink.  His sweeping self-satisfied hatchet jobs on these and many other sets too often undermines the essential truths of some of his views.

A word about the lack of couplings.... actually I do not consider this "lazy record company" Just the reverse.  Lazy are the record companies who just slap the original discs in a slimline case and sometimes put the same booklet(s) in too. Here the Halle label have a new booklet with the orginal essays OK but some nice new pics.  The recouplings make for 5 well-filled reasonably priced discs.  Chandos did exactly the same with both their original Bax and RVW cycles with Bryden Thomson.  They then sensibly re-released the couplings on separate orchestral works discs - hopefully the Halle will do the same.  I think that is a fair solution and allows the collector to cherry-pick the repertoire they want.

[vandermolen]

The Hurwitz ripped apart Elder's RVW recently and this is an opinion of his I whole-heartedly share:

https://www.youtube.com/v/jrrABqNJBYE

I could do without his diatribes against the British press, which are well documented, but the general jest of what he's saying about Elder I certainly agree with, although as I mentioned many times already, I do like his performance of A Pastoral Symphony. Something that is frustrating about this new RVW Elder box set is there aren't any of the couplings that originally appeared on the individual releases found in this set. What the hell? Lazy record label.

The box set in question:

Thanks for posting this John,
I always find Hurwitz highly entertaining even when I don't agree with his views (I wonder what he makes of the Rozhdestvensky boxed set which, at least, fulfils the criteria of a non-British orchestra with a non-British conductor). One of the highlights of this online review for me was when he dropped the Elder box set on the floor - presumably in a gesture of disgust. Interesting that he praises Slatkin (my experience suggests that he has a point) and Davis, whose VW symphonies cycle, other than No.6 is generally poorly reviewed. I regard him as too harsh on Haitink (whose 'Sea Symphony' finally brought that work alive for me).

[vandermolen]

As ever it is not the general content of this kind of invective but the sneering manner of it "Elder is rubbish, the British press are biased fools" etc that absolutely riles me.  Also, when the Elder cycle might not be as good as some (let's ignore the holy sepulchre of St Leonard de Slatkin who must be worshipped on every occasion) neither is it as unrelentingly bad as Hurwitz proposes.  For that matter neither is Haitink.  His sweeping self-satisfied hatchet jobs on these and many other sets too often undermines the essential truths of some of his views.

A word about the lack of couplings.... actually I do not consider this "lazy record company" Just the reverse.  Lazy are the record companies who just slap the original discs in a slimline case and sometimes put the same booklet(s) in too. Here the Halle label have a new booklet with the orginal essays OK but some nice new pics.  The recouplings make for 5 well-filled reasonably priced discs.  Chandos did exactly the same with both their original Bax and RVW cycles with Bryden Thomson.  They then sensibly re-released the couplings on separate orchestral works discs - hopefully the Halle will do the same.  I think that is a fair solution and allows the collector to cherry-pick the repertoire they want.

I loved your 'St Leonard de Slatkin' comment. Yes, praise from me for the Thomson cycle as well.

[Spotted Horses]

It seems that everyone has a list of Vaughan Williams that they claim are terrible or disappointing, and recordings I have greatly enjoyed keep coming up.

I've got Elder in my shopping cart, so there!

(Maybe I'll start with Job, seems like I am stocked mostly with recordings in archaic sound.)

[Irons]

Earlier today I listened to the Menuhin/RPO recording of the 5th symphony that was discussed fairly recently in this thread. I liked it a lot. Very airy kind of performance which is fitting for that work.

Excellent!

[DavidW]

let's ignore the holy sepulchre of St Leonard de Slatkin who must be worshipped on every occasion)

Funny enough his beloved Slatkin set is out of print and not even available to stream.  That's how popular it is!  And the Haitink set that Hurwitz thinks is excrement is widely available and is highly rated by almost everyone that buys it.

[Mirror Image]

As ever it is not the general content of this kind of invective but the sneering manner of it "Elder is rubbish, the British press are biased fools" etc that absolutely riles me.  Also, when the Elder cycle might not be as good as some (let's ignore the holy sepulchre of St Leonard de Slatkin who must be worshipped on every occasion) neither is it as unrelentingly bad as Hurwitz proposes.  For that matter neither is Haitink.  His sweeping self-satisfied hatchet jobs on these and many other sets too often undermines the essential truths of some of his views.

A word about the lack of couplings.... actually I do not consider this "lazy record company" Just the reverse.  Lazy are the record companies who just slap the original discs in a slimline case and sometimes put the same booklet(s) in too. Here the Halle label have a new booklet with the orginal essays OK but some nice new pics.  The recouplings make for 5 well-filled reasonably priced discs.  Chandos did exactly the same with both their original Bax and RVW cycles with Bryden Thomson.  They then sensibly re-released the couplings on separate orchestral works discs - hopefully the Halle will do the same.  I think that is a fair solution and allows the collector to cherry-pick the repertoire they want.

As I mentioned, I don't care for his axe grindings against the British Press, Roger Norrington et. al. His Leonard Slatkin worship is also dully noted and I happily ignore him in this regard. He is Hurwitz's friend, so naturally, he's going to promote him whenever he gets the chance. But his point about Elder is a fair one and one I agree with. I didn't like any of the performances in his cycle with the exception of A Pastoral Symphony, although I haven't heard his newest recording of Sinfonia antartica, but I can't imagine it impressing me that much. Your point about the Elder box set is exactly my problem with it. I think it's nothing more than a money grab. They could've easily included two more CDs that had all the couplings, but, no, they're more content with squeezing money out of the perspective buyer --- in other words, they're no different than any other label in this regard.

In other news, I see there's a Tower Records/Warner Classics hybrid SACD release of the classic Adrian Boult cycle:

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for posting this John,
I always find Hurwitz highly entertaining even when I don't agree with his views (I wonder what he makes of the Rozhdestvensky boxed set which, at least, fulfils the criteria of a non-British orchestra with a non-British conductor). One of the highlights of this online review for me was when he dropped the Elder box set on the floor - presumably in a gesture of disgust. Interesting that he praises Slatkin (my experience suggests that he has a point) and Davis, whose VW symphonies cycle, other than No.6 is generally poorly reviewed. I regard him as too harsh on Haitink (whose 'Sea Symphony' finally brought that work alive for me).

He probably would rip Rozhdestvensky's cycle to shreds. Not that I would care, because I generally don't care much about Hurwitz's opinion until in coincides with my own. Slatkin's cycle is 'okay', it's not the bee's knees. It's interesting he hasn't mentioned Brabbins who I think is a finer conductor than Elder and in RVW, he certainly holds his own against some stiff competition. It's okay though as my favorite complete symphony cycles will forever be Boult on EMI (Warner), Previn on RCA and Thomson on Chandos. I never cared for Haitink and, while I don't agree with Hurwitz's take on this cycle, I don't view it as essential or an important addition to the RVW discography. But that's just my two measly cents.

[Roasted Swan]

Funny enough his beloved Slatkin set is out of print and not even available to stream.  That's how popular it is!  And the Haitink set that Hurwitz thinks is excrement is widely available and is highly rated by almost everyone that buys it.

There is a certain paradox in bemoaning the fact that "only" British conductors and orchestras do this music in a British-centric "we know how to do this music" way but as soon as someone comes along with a different/individual appraoch - ie Haitink - that is dismissed as being appalling.  As if a conductor of Haitink's stature would ever do anything without carefully thinking it out.........!!

[Roasted Swan]

In other news, I see there's a Tower Records/Warner Classics hybrid SACD release of the classic Adrian Boult cycle:

Oh GOD!!!  Just when my bank manager had forgiven me............... (whisper it quietly...... how much and from where.........)

[Karl Henning]

As ever it is not the general content of this kind of invective but the sneering manner of it "Elder is rubbish, the British press are biased fools" etc that absolutely riles me.  Also, when the Elder cycle might not be as good as some (let's ignore the holy sepulchre of St Leonard de Slatkin who must be worshipped on every occasion) neither is it as unrelentingly bad as Hurwitz proposes.  For that matter neither is Haitink.  His sweeping self-satisfied hatchet jobs on these and many other sets too often undermines the essential truths of some of his views.

Best I can say is: bully for him that he's managed to monetize his rants ... even though part of me thinks this is not much distance (methodologically) from the pointy-headed right-wing disinformation junkies.

[JBS]

It seems that everyone has a list of Vaughan Williams that they claim are terrible or disappointing, and recordings I have greatly enjoyed keep coming up.

I've got Elder in my shopping cart, so there!

(Maybe I'll start with Job, seems like I am stocked mostly with recordings in archaic sound.)

I know the feeling. I seem to be the only person on GMG who likes Manze's cycle.

As for Job--my suggestion


Elder has done it (it's coupled with Songs of Travel, but I haven't heard it. I have two installments of Elder's cycle, but they didn't impress me.

[Mirror Image]

Oh GOD!!!  Just when my bank manager had forgiven me............... (whisper it quietly...... how much and from where.........)

Here's the product listing via Tower Records Japan:

https://tower.jp/item/5421418/%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%BB%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A3%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%A0%E3%82%BA%EF%BC%9A%E4%BA%A4%E9%9F%BF%E6%9B%B2%E5%85%A8%E9%9B%86%EF%BC%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E9%99%90%E5%AE%9A%EF%BC%9E

P.S. I just bought it for $116 (incl. shipping). It has a newer remastering, too.

[Karl Henning]

I know the feeling. I seem to be the only person on GMG who likes Manze's cycle.

As for Job--my suggestion


Elder has done it (it's coupled with Songs of Travel, but I haven't heard it. I have two installments of Elder's cycle, but they didn't impress me.

This is all too bad. I remember really liking Elder's Falstaff.

[DavidW]

I know the feeling. I seem to be the only person on GMG who likes Manze's cycle.

I've recently started listening to Manze's recordings and I really like what I'm hearing... but that is two recordings so far.  I have so many listening projects that it will probably take my months to listen to the whole cycle.

[vandermolen]

It seems that everyone has a list of Vaughan Williams that they claim are terrible or disappointing, and recordings I have greatly enjoyed keep coming up.

I've got Elder in my shopping cart, so there!

(Maybe I'll start with Job, seems like I am stocked mostly with recordings in archaic sound.)

Job is excellent! Received it last Christmas.

[vandermolen]

As I mentioned, I don't care for his axe grindings against the British Press, Roger Norrington et. al. His Leonard Slatkin worship is also dully noted and I happily ignore him in this regard. He is Hurwitz's friend, so naturally, he's going to promote him whenever he gets the chance. But his point about Elder is a fair one and one I agree with. I didn't like any of the performances in his cycle with the exception of A Pastoral Symphony, although I haven't heard his newest recording of Sinfonia antartica, but I can't imagine it impressing me that much. Your point about the Elder box set is exactly my problem with it. I think it's nothing more than a money grab. They could've easily included two more CDs that had all the couplings, but, no, they're more content with squeezing money out of the perspective buyer --- in other words, they're no different than any other label in this regard.

In other news, I see there's a Tower Records/Warner Classics hybrid SACD release of the classic Adrian Boult cycle:

Wow! I love the presentation - may have to order it 

[JBS]

This is all too bad. I remember really liking Elder's Falstaff.

His Elgar recordings are superb.

[Roasted Swan]

Here's the product listing via Tower Records Japan:

https://tower.jp/item/5421418/%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%BB%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A3%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%A0%E3%82%BA%EF%BC%9A%E4%BA%A4%E9%9F%BF%E6%9B%B2%E5%85%A8%E9%9B%86%EF%BC%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E9%99%90%E5%AE%9A%EF%BC%9E

P.S. I just bought it for $116 (incl. shipping). It has a newer remastering, too.

aargh - £80 sterling plus postage - that looks fantastic but outside of my budget for now.  Let us know how it compares to the most recent(?) Warner mastering.  If you say much better I'll pretend I haven't heard you!!

[Mirror Image]

Wow! I love the presentation - may have to order it 

I have similar sets of Previn's Rachmaninov, Berglund's Sibelius (w/ Bournemouth) and Kempe's Strauss. I can tell you that the quality of these recordings and packaging is superb. I bought this Boult set because it has been newly remastered --- 2022. Definitely looking forward to hearing it!