Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Irons]

My general observations is that intimate relationships, marriages or other long term intimate partnerships, are often very complicated, don't conform to what is "normal" and are driven by circumstances that are not known to people outside the relationship. Speculating and/or passing judgement on such relationships based on the public face of the relationship is of dubious accuracy and value, in my view. As long as there is no indication of abuse, I find myself uninterested, in principal. This particularly applies when the participants are no longer living.

For composers, I am particularly uninterested. I've only gone beyond CD linear notes twice. I started reading Thayer's "Life of Beethoven," and found interesting information about Beethoven's early life, in which he was a prodigy who served as a church organist at an early age (if I recall correctly) but eventually got bored by all of the tedious detail of Beethoven's activities. The other time was Swafford's biography of Brahms, but discontinued reading before getting too far because I didn't see that reading about his neuroses was helping me appreciate the music.

Not being a musical person per se I find lives of composers of great interest and assists in the  appreciation their music. George Butterworth is a hero of mine. He fought and died for his country, an immensely brave and modest man who I admire. When I listen to his music it is far more then the notes themselves.
Flipside to that is Peter Warlock. He dabbled in the occult, drank like a fish and instead of killed by a sniper's bullet in the case of Butterworth, but by his own hand. Two, for different reasons, short and unfilled lives, the former 31 years and latter 36. Without being aware of the backstory of each I think my appreciation of their music would be less. 

[Roasted Swan]

Not being a musical person per se I find lives of composers of great interest and assists in the  appreciation their music. George Butterworth is a hero of mine. He fought and died for his country, an immensely brave and modest man who I admire. When I listen to his music it is far more then the notes themselves.
Flipside to that is Peter Warlock. He dabbled in the occult, drank like a fish and instead of killed by a sniper's bullet in the case of Butterworth, but by his own hand. Two, for different reasons, short and unfilled lives, the former 31 years and latter 36. Without being aware of the backstory of each I think my appreciation of their music would be less.

I'm with you on this but of course every composer is unique and so what impacted them as people and artists are different.  I might have a sense of what makes a particular composer tick and trying to reconcile that with how I perceive their music is part of the fascination for me - certainly I enjoy music a lot more when I think I understand the "why" behind it.  Or as you say with Warlock the extraordinary disconnect between the man and his life as we understand it to be and the music he produced is intriguing.

[vandermolen]

Not being a musical person per se I find lives of composers of great interest and assists in the  appreciation their music. George Butterworth is a hero of mine. He fought and died for his country, an immensely brave and modest man who I admire. When I listen to his music it is far more then the notes themselves.
Flipside to that is Peter Warlock. He dabbled in the occult, drank like a fish and instead of killed by a sniper's bullet in the case of Butterworth, but by his own hand. Two, for different reasons, short and unfilled lives, the former 31 years and latter 36. Without being aware of the backstory of each I think my appreciation of their music would be less.

+1

[Karl Henning]

I for one did not know anything about the personal life story and come away from it with increased respect for the composer (all three people, in fact) as they all seem to have behaved with great compassion and decency to one another, and to have made each other's lives better. As we know, that can be all too rare.

Anyway. Thanks all. 

With the modification that I have as much biographical info as the DVD O Thou Transcendent provides, + 1.

[Karl Henning]

Excellent post, PD. RVW remained committed to the well-being to his first wife and although a big age difference his second marriage was a loving one.
Many composers have a dark side. It is a valid point that without it they would not have been as good as they were.

I'd say, without it they would not have been quite as they were. Whether the quality of their composition would suffer from that loss, is nearly-pure speculation.

[Karl Henning]

My general observations is that intimate relationships, marriages or other long term intimate partnerships, are often very complicated, don't conform to what is "normal" and are driven by circumstances that are not known to people outside the relationship. Speculating and/or passing judgement on such relationships based on the public face of the relationship is of dubious accuracy and value, in my view. As long as there is no indication of abuse, I find myself uninterested, in principal. This particularly applies when the participants are no longer living.

For composers, I am particularly uninterested. I've only gone beyond CD linear notes twice. I started reading Thayer's "Life of Beethoven," and found interesting information about Beethoven's early life, in which he was a prodigy who served as a church organist at an early age (if I recall correctly) but eventually got bored by all of the tedious detail of Beethoven's activities. The other time was Swafford's biography of Brahms, but discontinued reading before getting too far because I didn't see that reading about his neuroses was helping me appreciate the music.

I have not even brought myself to read Swafford's book, for reasons you raise.

[Irons]

I'm with you on this but of course every composer is unique and so what impacted them as people and artists are different.  I might have a sense of what makes a particular composer tick and trying to reconcile that with how I perceive their music is part of the fascination for me - certainly I enjoy music a lot more when I think I understand the "why" behind it.  Or as you say with Warlock the extraordinary disconnect between the man and his life as we understand it to be and the music he produced is intriguing.

Agreed. Also, the unanswerable question what would composers dying tragically young have produced if reaching old age. I am sure I read somewhere that as young men RVW considered Butterworth his equal.

[Irons]

I'd say, without it they would not have been quite as they were. Whether the quality of their composition would suffer from that loss, is nearly-pure speculation.

You are far better qualified then I am to answer that.   

[vandermolen]

Agreed. Also, the unanswerable question what would composers dying tragically young have produced if reaching old age. I am sure I read somewhere that as young men RVW considered Butterworth his equal.

I think that Butterworth was a more natural melodist than VW but who knows how his sadly short-lived career would have developed.
Am currently enjoying this new release:

I was amused by one review which described the 1944 narration on 'Thanksgiving for Victory' as like 'old-testament-prophet-reads-the-News'.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I think that Butterworth was a more natural melodist than VW but who knows how his sadly short-lived career would have developed.
Am currently enjoying this new release:

I was amused by one review which described the 1944 narration on 'Thanksgiving for Victory' as like 'old-testament-prophet-reads-the-News'.

    Did it strike you that way too Jeffrey?

PD

[vandermolen]

    Did it strike you that way too Jeffrey?

PD

Well PD - those old BBC war-time announcers all sound very similar. I'm currently greatly enjoying Boult conducting the Boston SO in 'Job' - a great performance reminding me of Koussevitsky's equally impressive recording of the 5th Symphony.

[Roasted Swan]

Well PD - those old BBC war-time announcers all sound very similar. I'm currently greatly enjoying Boult conducting the Boston SO in 'Job' - a great performance reminding me of Koussevitsky's equally impressive recording of the 5th Symphony.

The Vol.3 of this SOMM series is in the works I see -



in the light of how good the earlier volumes have been I'm looking forward to hearing this.... not rare recordings as such but I suspect they will benefit from Lani Spahr's remastering magic!

[Karl Henning]

I think that Butterworth was a more natural melodist than VW but who knows how his sadly short-lived career would have developed.
Am currently enjoying this new release:

I was amused by one review which described the 1944 narration on 'Thanksgiving for Victory' as like 'old-testament-prophet-reads-the-News'.

(* chortle *)

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

A heads-up to anyone else who happens to be in the Chicago area next week. CSO is performing the 5th Symphony on November 3-5:

Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Edward Gardner, conductor
Christian Tetzlaff, violinist
Wagner: Prelude to Act 3 of Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
Bartók: Violin Concerto No. 2
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 5

I probably won't be able to go to this (and I heard the 5th at Grant Park a few years ago anyway), but it's good to see.

[vandermolen]

The Vol.3 of this SOMM series is in the works I see -



in the light of how good the earlier volumes have been I'm looking forward to hearing this.... not rare recordings as such but I suspect they will benefit from Lani Spahr's remastering magic!

Gosh - that's very exciting. I had no idea that there would be a third volume. I'm familiar with most of those recordings but I've never come across VW conducting A London Symphony before. And VW with Foxy as well! Unmissable.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Gosh - that's very exciting. I had no idea that there would be a third volume. I'm familiar with most of those recordings but I've never come across VW conducting A London Symphony before. And VW with Foxy as well! Unmissable.

Yes, and a free cat with every CD sold! 

The earliest recordings that I own are of No. 4 from 1937 and conducted by VW and No. 5 with Barbirolli from 1934.  Also this one (No. 5):  Promenade Concert: 11 September 1950; Royal Albert Hall, London It's an unpublished transcript of acetate disc from BBC archives - monophonic.  Earliest known recording of VW conducting this symphony.  Note:  The friend who gave it to me was there at this performance.

PD

[Wanderer]

Yes, and a free cat with every CD sold! 

I'll take two! 😎

[Roasted Swan]

Yes, and a free cat with every CD sold! 

The earliest recordings that I own are of No. 4 from 1937 and conducted by VW and No. 5 with Barbirolli from 1934.  Also this one (No. 5):  Promenade Concert: 11 September 1950; Royal Albert Hall, London It's an unpublished transcript of acetate disc from BBC archives - monophonic.  Earliest known recording of VW conducting this symphony.  Note:  The friend who gave it to me was there at this performance.

PD

No.5 was given the World Premiere on June 23rd 1943 - see CD cover above - Wood was indisposed so RVW conducted - so Barbirolli was doing well in 1934!  Which also means the 1950 performance under the composer is not the earliest......

[Karl Henning]

A heads-up to anyone else who happens to be in the Chicago area next week. CSO is performing the 5th Symphony on November 3-5:

Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Edward Gardner, conductor
Christian Tetzlaff, violinist
Wagner: Prelude to Act 3 of Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
Bartók: Violin Concerto No. 2
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 5

I probably won't be able to go to this (and I heard the 5th at Grant Park a few years ago anyway), but it's good to see.

Nice!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I'll take two! 😎

My kind of person!

Yes, and a free cat with every CD sold! 

The earliest recordings that I own are of No. 4 from 1937 and conducted by VW and No. 5 with Barbirolli from 1934.  Also this one (No. 5):  Promenade Concert: 11 September 1950; Royal Albert Hall, London It's an unpublished transcript of acetate disc from BBC archives - monophonic.  Earliest known recording of VW conducting this symphony.  Note:  The friend who gave it to me was there at this performance.

PD

No.5 was given the World Premiere on June 23rd 1943 - see CD cover above - Wood was indisposed so RVW conducted - so Barbirolli was doing well in 1934!  Which also means the 1950 performance under the composer is not the earliest......

Looks like I was typing too quickly (also woke up too early this morning!):  The No. 5 with Barbirolli was recorded in 1944 (I think that I saw the 1943 after the title, transposed the numbers 3 & 4...but it should have been '44 to begin with.    ).  And looks like my friend's information was perhaps out of date?  I copied off the info that he had given me, so confused there.  And, yes, I've just now taken a better look at that cover.

Anyway, thanks for the correct info! 

PD