Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Roy Bland]

deep analysis
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQ8O_5o-SNAxVv3AIHHVhrC8UQFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ideals.illinois.edu%2Fitems%2F32277%2Fbitstreams%2F105825%2Fdata.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1MHaFqjFavNgmSIrnd1mmw&opi=89978449

[Karl Henning]

RVW in Fargo, North Dakota:

[Skogwald]

RVW in Fargo, North Dakota:

Ooh yah?

[DaveF]

RVW in Fargo, North Dakota:

I started listening to this out of curiosity to know what a Community (i.e. amateur) Midwestern orchestra would make of VW, and was gripped from beginning to end.  They really are good!  I especially like the string portamenti that maestro Zimmermann employs to such effect, and as for the trombones - have never heard such ferocious snapping and snarling in this piece.  A pity there appear to be so many empty seats - the good folk of Fargo missed a real treat.

[Karl Henning]

I started listening to this out of curiosity to know what a Community (i.e. amateur) Midwestern orchestra would make of VW, and was gripped from beginning to end.  They really are good!  I especially like the string portamenti that maestro Zimmermann employs to such effect, and as for the trombones - have never heard such ferocious snapping and snarling in this piece.  A pity there appear to be so many empty seats - the good folk of Fargo missed a real treat.

A great lesson in just how good regional orchestras can be!

[relm1]

A great lesson in just how good regional orchestras can be!

Some are very competitive, semi-pro.  I love youth orchestras too.  American Youth Orchestra were fantastic playing very difficult music! 

[vandermolen]

Sancta Civitas was televised the other night - a fine performance from the Proms. Sadly I won't get to Walton's 1st Symphony this evening although my brother is going. I will try to tune in on the radio.

[pjme]

Sancta Civitas was televised the other night - a fine performance from the Proms.

Indeed, a great work in an excellent performance.
However, I watched - with growing surprise and disbelief - the whole program. Especially the interviews with the soloists and composer Errollynn Wallen were meaningless, superficial. 
And Sancta civitas contrasted,imo, unpleasantly with the rest of the program: a (very short) Birthday Fanfare by Bliss, Mendelssohn's Hebrides overture and Sibelius violin concerto which is one the most overplayed works of the undistructable Iron repertoire. 
After the interval (filled with more small talk) , Errollyn Wallens rather fun, very (s)light, jazzy mini-concerto for orchestra (The Elements) was a very weird prelude to RVW....

[vandermolen]

Indeed, a great work in an excellent performance.
However, I watched - with growing surprise and disbelief - the whole program. Especially the interviews with the soloists and composer Errollynn Wallen were meaningless, superficial. 
And Sancta civitas contrasted,imo, unpleasantly with the rest of the program: a (very short) Birthday Fanfare by Bliss, Mendelssohn's Hebrides overture and Sibelius violin concerto which is one the most overplayed works of the undistructable Iron repertoire.
After the interval (filled with more small talk) , Errollyn Wallens rather fun, very (s)light, jazzy mini-concerto for orchestra (The Elements) was a very weird prelude to RVW....

I largely agree with your comments. The Wallens work seemed derivative of West Side Story.

[calyptorhynchus]

... Sibelius violin concerto which is one the most overplayed works of the indestructible Iron repertoire...

I agree about the repertoire, though the Sibelius VC is one of the better works in it. Have you heard the only recording of the original version? It has a much more weighty first movement.

[pjme]

There is, of course, plenty of wonderful and great music in the Iron repertoire....

Alas, my desire for lesser-known works on the concert stage has become hopelessly vain....outdated.
At the start of the new concert season, I comb through the schedules of various (Belgian and Dutch) orchestras, hoping to find something "unusual".... In march 2026 Coplands Organ symphony and Poulencs Organ concerto will be performed in Brussels (Thiery Escaich soloist) and the Dutch radio Phil is tackling Langgaards Music of the sferes in may 2026. (Amsterdam);..

[DaveF]

Indeed, a great work in an excellent performance.
However, I watched - with growing surprise and disbelief - the whole program. Especially the interviews with the soloists and composer Errollynn Wallen were meaningless, superficial. 

Superficial is what Auntie Beeb does best these days, sadly.
Hope you had a listen to the Walton, @vandermolen - a good one, I thought, although as usual with me I listened to the "Original Version" (i.e. switched off after the 3rd movement).  Enjoyed the Ravel too, a work I've heard several times in concert, although without the benefit of the bird's-eye view of the keyboard.  And great to see Mark Wigglesworth - we loved him in Cardiff.

[Iota]

Sancta Civitas was televised the other night - a fine performance from the Proms. Sadly I won't get to Walton's 1st Symphony this evening although my brother is going. I will try to tune in on the radio.

The Vaughan Williams sphere is not one I visit very often, but thanks to your mention of it here, I decided on a whim to dive in to the Sancta Civitas for the first time today, and enjoyed it very much. I often (not always) seem to retreat from VW's modality, but on this occasion it seemed perfectly judged, so thanks for the introduction! I agree the performance seemed an excellent one too!

[vandermolen]

The Vaughan Williams sphere is not one I visit very often, but thanks to your mention of it here, I decided on a whim to dive in to the Sancta Civitas for the first time today, and enjoyed it very much. I often (not always) seem to retreat from VW's modality, but on this occasion it seemed perfectly judged, so thanks for the introduction! I agree the performance seemed an excellent one too!

Delighted that you enjoyed it!

[JBS]

From the main Listening thread


Vaughan Williams
The Lark Ascending
Arranged by Paul Drayton for solo violin and chorus
Laura Samuel violin
BBC Singers
Sofi Jeannin conductor

The orchestra is replaced by a (mostly wordless) chorus, but the middle section sets 12 lines from the George Meredith poem which inspired RVW, the 12 lines being those RVW quoted at the top of the score.

I rather liked it.
Does anyone know if there's a commercial recording of Drayton's version?

[JBS]

Followup
There's at least one from Voces8. It's on Youtube.

[Karl Henning]

From the main Listening thread


Vaughan Williams
The Lark Ascending
Arranged by Paul Drayton for solo violin and chorus
Laura Samuel violin
BBC Singers
Sofi Jeannin conductor

The orchestra is replaced by a (mostly wordless) chorus, but the middle section sets 12 lines from the George Meredith poem which inspired RVW, the 12 lines being those RVW quoted at the top of the score.

I rather liked it.
Does anyone know if there's a commercial recording of Drayton's version?

Most interesting!
I am close to listening to more RVW film score music, thanks to CDs which my colleague Dan offloaded unto me. I shall report.

[Roasted Swan]

From the main Listening thread


Vaughan Williams
The Lark Ascending
Arranged by Paul Drayton for solo violin and chorus
Laura Samuel violin
BBC Singers
Sofi Jeannin conductor

The orchestra is replaced by a (mostly wordless) chorus, but the middle section sets 12 lines from the George Meredith poem which inspired RVW, the 12 lines being those RVW quoted at the top of the score.

I rather liked it.
Does anyone know if there's a commercial recording of Drayton's version?

Not sure if it counts as commercial but this was on the BBC Music Magazine cover disc very recently....



EDIT:  Apologies - I missed seeing that someone had already pointed this out.  But as an extra point of interest - this performance is played by the ex-leader of the BBC SSO Laura Samuel who died tragically young of cancer not so long ago.  The orchestra played a piece in her memory at the Proms this year and somehow this ethereal work that "rises up" seems especially apt and touching in the circumstances.  Not sure if that is also why the Mozart Requiem is the coupling which in other circumstances might seem a little incongruous.....

[JBS]

Not sure if it counts as commercial but this was on the BBC Music Magazine cover disc very recently....



EDIT:  Apologies - I missed seeing that someone had already pointed this out.  But as an extra point of interest - this performance is played by the ex-leader of the BBC SSO Laura Samuel who died tragically young of cancer not so long ago.  The orchestra played a piece in her memory at the Proms this year and somehow this ethereal work that "rises up" seems especially apt and touching in the circumstances.  Not sure if that is also why the Mozart Requiem is the coupling which in other circumstances might seem a little incongruous.....

That's the CD I was listening to.
The official reason for the coupling was simply both were performances at the Proms.

I knew nothing of Ms. Samuels; thank you for the information.

[relm1]

Lately, I've become obsessed with RVW's Symphony No. 4.  It is so full of volcanic ferocity, where did so much darkness in it come from?

The first movement, right from the start, you're thrown into the world of motives that play an important part throughout. They don't just introduce themes, they crash into each other, interrupt, collide in minor seconds and ninths, and set the entire tonal vocabulary for the symphony. It sounds like something from the primal rage in the finale of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. There's an edge here that feels almost dangerous.

Opening X, z, y motives (excuse that in the audio, I am truncating ideas because he repeats or develops the motives and I just want to state them). 



The motives introduce material you'll hear throughout every movement, but also function as the first subject group, and mark out a harmonic sound world that's unlike anything else by RVW.  Notice the clash between D flat in the high register and C in the bass.  When the upper register lands on C, the low register rises to D flat.  The minor second and minor 9th are throughout this work and a harsh dissonance.

Transitions aren't smooth but are sudden, almost aggressive.  Motives frequently cut each other off. The movement's structure is broad: a fiery, intense presto followed by a calmer version of the second theme in contrast to fire that opens the movement. But even in the calm, the memory of those tense, biting motives lingers.

The second movement is an adagio.  It opens with a figure based on the y motif, spun out in a way that's both rhapsodic and enigmatic. The minor seconds and ninths are still at play, but here they create a kind of haunting nostalgia.  There's a stately ostinato (reminding me of Elgar's Symphony No. 1 opening or Saturn from Holst's The Planets), and at the end, a rhapsodic solo flute floats above distant trombone chords. It's the kind of ending that could have come straight out of Bernard Herrmann's scores for The Twilight Zone.  Eerie, beautiful, unresolved.

One thing to listen for: this opening "y" motif, with its major second and D flat over C natural (a minor ninth), isn't just a one-off. It's going to reappear, transformed, in the very last moments of the finale.

The third movement is a scherzo in three sections, again built from the z and y motives. This is where things feel genuinely unhinged. There's a fugato that's not just a technical exercise but a real dramatic buildup of multiple ideas.  Sort of an organized chaos.

What I love is the sense of propulsion here. The end of this movement doesn't so much resolve as it launches us head first into the final movement. It's a dramatic gear shift that reminds me of how in Beethoven's Symphony No. 5, the last two movements are joined together making the transition between movements very uncertain till you land with a major arrival point at the start of the fourth movement. 

By the time you reach the finale, you realize this isn't a symphony that simply recycles ideas. RVW takes motives z and y (from the opening), transforms them beyond recognition, and recalls themes from every previous movement. Some themes appear only in fragments at first but grow and develop until they finally emerge in full.

There's extensive use of ostinatos, melodic diminution, and truncation.  Sometimes a theme is stated, then its note values are diminished/halved, then it morphs into an ostinato, over which something entirely new emerges.  The harmony here is never settled. One striking moment: a theme previously in D flat returns in D natural, but with an A flat pedal underneath (which "should" belong to D flat). This creates a persistent minor second rub (A against A flat) that's practically the minor 2nd/minor 9th DNA of the whole work. 

At bar 309 of the last movement, a fugato starts where motives z and y (remember their minor 2nd/9th clash) join with a brand new theme from the final movement. These motives now serve as bridges, weaving earlier themes together in surprising ways. Beethoven did something similar, but here the device is used to create a wild and intense transformation.

The ending is the culmination of relentless thematic development, but now the tonalities of F major and F minor clash head-on. Motives x, y, and z, which opened the symphony, return with ferocity, only this time, the music is slower, angrier, almost imploding in on itself with a fiery thud.  The penultimate bar ends with a very loud and fast version of what started the adagio second movement. It feels volcanic.

Some afterthoughts.  I find myself wondering where all this rage came from. RVW famously said, "I don't know if I like it, but it's what I meant."  I think it must have been very shocking for the initial audiences who probably saw him as a pastoralist.  For all its tight structure and thematic cohesion, the symphony feels personal, almost cathartic like a creative outburst that's been building for years and he was working through these dark feelings without feeling the need to explain them.

I was also surprised to see how much sense the entire work makes.  How what I thought was a new idea was based on a motif stated at the start and that in the last movement as novel as it sounds, it is constantly bringing back material we heard before and rapidly switching from one movement to the next in a way that sounds cacophonous but makes so much logical sense when you look at it closely.  The main theme of the last movement is based on the enigmatic flute solo that ended the second movement but is virtually unrecognizable.  He poured a lot of thought into this work which might feel chaotic but makes so much sense.  This is a symphony with a deep inner logic and also an astonishing amount of creative cohesion that might not immediately be apparent.

I feel like a light bulb went off in my head as I listened to it several times over the past few days.  This was actually the first symphony of RVW that I heard when a kid.  It was on the first side of a cassette that featured both Symphony No. 4 and No. 5 by Adrian Boult.  I've probably heard it hundreds of times but feel like I suddenly understand it.  I don't think I've ever seen it programmed.  It is a volatile work full of urgency but is ultimately deeply moving.  I think it is a very unique result of personal creative burst.