Vaughan Williams's Veranda

Started by karlhenning, April 12, 2007, 06:03:44 AM

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karlhenning

Quote from: vandermolen on June 14, 2008, 11:32:25 PM
You make a very interesting point Johan. My own feeling is that because Vaughan Williams' private life (especially his relationship with Adeline and Ursula) was such a closed book until now (Ursula's biography, good as it is, is something of an account of VW's desk diary rather than an attempted exploration of his inner life and relationships), there was bound to be an over-reaction the other way after the death of Ursula. Hence Michael Kennedy's description of Symphony 4 as "rage against Adeline". I am unconvinced, although the revelations about VW's affair with Ursula, her wartime pregnancy by Ralph (possibly) when she was still married to her first husband do help us to fill out the picture of VW. Nothing I saw on either documentary really changed the way I feel about VW as a man of great integrity and a truly great composer. The juxtaposition of images of dead children, in horrific war newsreel footage, alonside Vaughan Williams's 9th Symphony, in the Palmer TV documentary was the least convincing thing I saw in either film.

Yes, we quickly reach a point when the 'documentary' is more about the creator of the documentary, than about the ostensible subject thereof.

vandermolen

Quote from: karlhenning on June 15, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
Yes, we quickly reach a point when the 'documentary' is more about the creator of the documentary, than about the ostensible subject thereof.

V good point.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dundonnell

#422
I can understand the attempt to put a composer's work in the context of his personal experiences-of war or of love in VW's case. The context can go far to explain the background to his thinking and can therefore do much to help the listener to understand what the music is about. It can however be taken too far and colour the listener's appreciation in ways the composer himself did not actually intend. VW himself-presumably-intended that we listen to his music as music not as a reflection of his sexual frustrations! I watched the BBC documentary with a degree of unease. I welcome the attempt to dispel VW's image as a cuddly old buffer who wrote outdated 'cowpat' music with little relevance to the modern world but I don't really want to dwell over much on his family life or the difficulties of his first marriage any more than I want to listen to Beethoven and think about his foul temper!

I agree, Jeffrey, that the articles in this month's BBC Music Magazine are very interesting and a cut above many of the articles usually found in that publication. They certainly do VW proud. You will have noticed that Hickox's is the preferred choice for No.6-totally against the grain of most contributers to this site!!

Christo

Quote from: Dundonnell on June 16, 2008, 02:35:49 PM
You will have noticed that Hickox's is the preferred choice for No.6-totally against the grain of most contributers to this site!!

Interesting indeed! I didn't even dare to buy the Hickox VI - as it met with such a general disapproval. But since I, no doubt caused by my regrettable lack of insight, tend to disagree with some other common opinions too (I don't prefer Davis' Sixth and I happen to love Thompson's), and since I appreciate Hickox's Fifth, especially, I'll now invest in this CD too:

                                     
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

vandermolen

Quote from: Christo on June 16, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
Interesting indeed! I didn't even dare to buy the Hickox VI - as it met with such a general disapproval. But since I, no doubt caused by my regrettable lack of insight, tend to disagree with some other common opinions too (I don't prefer Davis' Sixth and I happen to love Thompson's), and since I appreciate Hickox's Fifth, especially, I'll now invest in this CD too:

                                     

I like the Davis and the Thomson. Boult's 1950s Decca is the best IMHO. The Hickox was a great disappointment but I will give it another listen.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

sound67

I won't. Time is precious.   ;D
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

btpaul674

Quote from: Christo on June 16, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
Interesting indeed! I didn't even dare to buy the Hickox VI - as it met with such a general disapproval. But since I, no doubt caused by my regrettable lack of insight, tend to disagree with some other common opinions too (I don't prefer Davis' Sixth and I happen to love Thompson's), and since I appreciate Hickox's Fifth, especially, I'll now invest in this CD too:

                                     

I don't think the 8th on this disc is that bad. The toccata is amazing. I have yet to find a toccata that is as good as this one. The 6th is a different story.  :-\

vandermolen

#427
Strongly recommend the CD below if you like VW Symphony 6; Benjamin's Symphony is a similarly troubled and visionary score. One of the discoveries of last year for me:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on June 19, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
Stronly recommend the CD below if you like VW Symphony 6; Benjamin's Symphony is a similarly troubled and visionary score. One of the discoveries of last year for me.

Thanks for reminding me of this CD. They have it on eMusic. I am going to listen to the symphony very soon...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

#429
I attended a wonderful performance (semi-staged) of the Pilgrim's Progress at Sadler's Wells in London as my birthday treat yesterday (Hickox, Philharmonia, Roderick Williams etc). I was unprepared for the overwhelming emotional reaction to seeing this live. It has to be one of the best concerts I have been to.

The programme booklet was really good as it covers all the concerts given by the Philharmonia in this anniversary year (ie all nine symphonies etc) with articles by Michael Kennedy etc. I am going back on 2nd November, hopefully, to see them play symphonies 9, 6 and 5 at the Festival Hall. If any VW admirers want me to get the booklet for them, I am happy to do so (it costs £3.50).

Interesting articles and videos on site below:

http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/vaughan_williams/
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on June 22, 2008, 11:10:26 PM
I attended a wonderful performance (semi-staged) of the Pilgrim's Progress at Sadler's Wells in London as my birthday treat yesterday (Hickox, Philharmonia, Roderick Williams etc). I was unprepared for the overwhelming emotional reaction to seeing this live. It has to be one of the best concerts I have been to.

The programme booklet was really good as it covers all the concerts given by the Philharmonia in this anniversary year (ie all nine symphonies etc) with articles by Michael Kennedy etc. I am going back on 2nd November, hopefully, to see them play symphonies 9, 6 and 5 at the Festival Hall. If any VW admirers want me to get the booklet for them, I am happy to do so (it costs £3.50).

My belated congratulations, Jeffrey! And what a perfect birthday present. A pity I can't be there on 2nd November. I have never heard RVW live...  :'(

(I still have to watch "O Thou Transcendent", btw. Must find a 'slot' for it...)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

Quote from: Jezetha on June 22, 2008, 11:21:50 PM
My belated congratulations, Jeffrey! And what a perfect birthday present. A pity I can't be there on 2nd November. I have never heard RVW live...  :'(

(I still have to watch "O Thou Transcendent", btw. Must find a 'slot' for it...)

Thanks Johan,

all best wishes

Jeffrey
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

karlhenning

Happy belated birthday, Jeffrey!

Christo

... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Lethevich

Thirded :P

Is this the horribly out of print (even on CD) 4th that people say is rather good? Even though I don't have any means to play vinyl atm, I am tempted to snap it up...

Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Thom

Many happy returns from me as well, Jeffrey!

Thom

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Lethe on June 23, 2008, 04:41:34 AM
Thirded :P

Is this the horribly out of print (even on CD) 4th that people say is rather good? Even though I don't have any means to play vinyl atm, I am tempted to snap it up...



This quote from Musicweb is perhaps helpful:

"... we shouldn’t forget a number of other highly successful readings, including two by Boult, on Decca (mono) and later on EMI, Berglund, also on EMI, and, a particular favourite, Bernstein on Sony, whose violins sing their hearts out in that first movement tune."
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

#437
Karl, Johan, Thom, Lethe.

THANK YOU  :)

Berglund's Vaughan Williams Symphony No 4 is just back, with his terrific sibelian Symphony No 6 (one of the few successful recordings, much better than the Hickox in my view) and Gibson's underrated Symphony No 5. I did a review on Amazon. Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-Nos-6/dp/B0018OAP2U/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1214296116&sr=1-7


Jeffrey
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Lethevich

#438
Quote from: vandermolen on June 24, 2008, 12:34:58 AM
Berglund's Vaughan Williams Symphony No 4 is just back, with his terrific sibelian Symphony No 6 (one of the few successful recordings, much better than the Hickox in my view) and Gibson's underrated Symphony No 5. I did a review on Amazon. Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-Nos-6/dp/B0018OAP2U/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1214296116&sr=1-7

Ah, how ideal, I can finally buy it. Thanks! :D I bet the greedy person selling the old issue for £44 on Amazon marketplace is wishing he sold it sooner, at a more sane price.

Edit: Hmm with the very good Silv. Tallis fantasia (which I've heard before from Operashare) and a decent recording of the oboe concerto along with the core syms, this could probably be a superb intro CD to one skeptical of RVW in general - I'll take note if I ever encounter such a person 0:)
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

vandermolen

Quote from: Lethe on June 24, 2008, 04:11:31 AM
Ah, how ideal, I can finally buy it. Thanks! :D I bet the greedy person selling the old issue for £44 on Amazon marketplace is wishing he sold it sooner, at a more sane price.

Edit: Hmm with the very good Silv. Tallis fantasia (which I've heard before from Operashare) and a decent recording of the oboe concerto along with the core syms, this could probably be a superb intro CD to one skeptical of RVW in general - I'll take note if I ever encounter such a person 0:)

Yes, it's a really good CD. Personally I'd have preferred them to use the old British Composers cover art (landscape photo of stormy scene) rather than a photo of a wasp's nest, but it's the music that counts. Having said that my work colleague likes the wasp photo. (my life is really boring isn't it  ::)).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).