Vaughan Williams's Veranda

Started by karlhenning, April 12, 2007, 06:03:44 AM

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eyeresist

Thanks for interesting responses. The reason I asked is that it seems to me that some fans of RVW are too prepared to dismiss the 7th as "mere film music" - see Sound67's comment. I wondered if presenting it more as "pure music" might correct this.

vandermolen

Quote from: Jezetha on July 14, 2008, 12:57:21 AM
Ensor has me down to a T. Incredible!  ;D

Yes, you are the one in the top hat  ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Dundonnell on July 14, 2008, 03:14:29 AM
I do feel that a composer's wishes should be adhered to! If VW wanted a wind machine then that is what should be used(provided, of course, one is available!). Just like Havergal Brian's 2nd Symphony....if the man wants 16 horns then let's try to grant his wishes...!

Has anyone heard the Chandos CD "The Film Music of Ralph Vaughan Williams, Volume 1" on which the BBC Philharmonic(Rumon Gamba) play the Suite from the music for the film "Scott of the Antartic"? That is an interesting work, providing the complete music VW wrote for the film(later reworked for the Sinfonia) but NOT using a wind-machine!
It is quite remarkable that VW wrote the music without even seeing the script for the film. When one watches the fim itself(with less than half of VW's music included of course) one is struck by how incredibly fitting the music is! OK, the film IS dated and does have a very British stiff upper-lip portrayal of the doomed expedition but VW himself was very aware of the dangerous(and ultimately fatal) risks run by the polar party and sought to convey the dreadful tragedy as it unfolded. The combination of his music and the film itself is unbelievably potent. It is indeed as VW wrote in 1945 almost as if "the film (was) devised to accompany it(the music)"


Colin, I have all three VW film music CDs on Chandos (surprised? ;D), it is a great series. The CD below is also of great interest as it has Boult's fine earliest recording of Symphony 6 (EMI) and extracts from film music, including soundtrack extracts from the Scott music; also the highly characteristic "Loves of Joanna Godden" film score. I play this CD a lot:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2008, 03:49:47 AM
Yes, you are the one in the top hat  ;D

I belie my years, don't I?  ;)

On topic: I am reading the late Wilfrid Mellers's book on RVW at last, Ralph Vaughan Williams and the Vision of Albion. A heady cocktail as usual. Stimulating. In the process I plan on watching O thou transcendent, too...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

Quote from: Jezetha on July 15, 2008, 04:13:35 AM
I belie my years, don't I?  ;)

On topic: I am reading the late Wilfrid Mellers's book on RVW at last, Ralph Vaughan Williams and the Vision of Albion. A heady cocktail as usual. Stimulating. In the process I plan on watching O thou transcendent, too...

Will be v interested to hear what you think of the documentary Johan. There is a really angry debate going on in the letters page of the Vaughan Williams's Society Journal at the moment about the documentary, which is fun. I am tempted to buy the forthcoming "Letters of Vaughan Williams" but it is expensive; £95 (or £60 for members of VW Soc for v limited time). My local library wont order it as it's so expensive  >:(

Off on my hols to Austria tomorrow so will not be compulsively posting for a week.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dundonnell

#505
Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2008, 04:34:31 AM
Will be v interested to hear what you think of the documentary Johan. There is a really angry debate going on in the letters page of the Vaughan Williams's Society Journal at the moment about the documentary, which is fun. I am tempted to buy the forthcoming "Letters of Vaughan Williams" but it is expensive; £95 (or £60 for members of VW Soc for v limited time). My local library wont order it as it's so expensive  >:(

Off on my hols to Austria tomorrow so will not be compulsively posting for a week.

Have a happy, peaceful and restful holiday! Don't spend too much money on those extravagantly expensive Austrian confectionery and stay away from CD shops in any Austrian city!

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2008, 04:34:31 AM
Will be v interested to hear what you think of the documentary Johan. There is a really angry debate going on in the letters page of the Vaughan Williams's Society Journal at the moment about the documentary, which is fun. I am tempted to buy the forthcoming "Letters of Vaughan Williams" but it is expensive; £95 (or £60 for members of VW Soc for v limited time). My local library wont order it as it's so expensive  >:(

Off on my hols to Austria tomorrow so will not be compulsively posting for a week.

I'll report back. And - give my regards to Austria, where I've never been, only in spirit... (And enjoy yourself, of course!)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Dundonnell

Quote from: Jezetha on July 15, 2008, 04:40:21 AM
I'll report back. And - give my regards to Austria, where I've never been, only in spirit... (And enjoy yourself, of course!)

Beautiful, beautiful country!! Mountains and lakes, more mountains and lakes.....! But expensive :) So are Norway and Sweden, of course, but they speak more English there for we poor uncultured, benighted folk who have failed to learn foreign languages as we should :(
(I could have a pleasant holiday in the Roman Empire speaking my school-learned classical Latin if only the empire could return :))

vandermolen

Thank you Colin and Johan, you are kind.

 
I'm hoping that this will be a healthy walking holiday and as I am overweight I will have to keep away from the cakes etc (well, maybe not  >:D) I would love to visit St Florian and Ansfelden, with their Bruckner connections, but that is an unlikely scenario. I've only been to Austria once, on my one and only skiing trip, aged 12.

byebye for now  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2008, 04:48:02 AM
I'm hoping that this will be a healthy walking holiday and as I am overweight I will have to keep away from the cakes etc (well, maybe not  >:D) I would love to visit St Florian and Ansfelden, with their Bruckner connections, but that is an unlikely scenario. I've only been to Austria once, on my one and only skiing trip, aged 12.

byebye for now  :)

Enjoy your time in the country of Franz Schmidt, (Bruckner died before Austria came into being  ;) ), Jeffrey!!  8) :D :)

(I'm leaving too, tonight, for the blessed isle of Crete, for two weeks. Planning to play my Kalomiris and Skalkottas collection there, and read Kazantzakis again - who was from Crete, there's even a Kazantzakis museum. Will also be having the Boult/EMI RVW box with me, otherwise this post would be completely OT  8))
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

J.Z. Herrenberg

Prettige vakantie, Johan! En kom veilig weer thuis (met je dierbaren).
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

Quote from: Christo on July 15, 2008, 06:37:57 AM
Enjoy your time in the country of Franz Schmidt, (Bruckner died before Austria came into being  ;) ), Jeffrey!!  8) :D :)

(I'm leaving too, tonight, for the blessed isle of Crete, for two weeks. Planning to play my Kalomiris and Skalkottas collection there, and read Kazantzakis again - who was from Crete, there's even a Kazantzakis museum. Will also be having the Boult/EMI RVW box with me, otherwise this post would be completely OT  8))


OT

Thank you Johan. Have a great time in Crete with your VW box  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

drogulus

Quote from: eyeresist on July 13, 2008, 07:03:08 PM
Has anyone dared to do the Antarctica without wind machine? I'm wondering if that would help it get taking a little more seriously....


     The impression I get, based on the reaction here at GMG and from what little I've read elsewhere, is that the reputation of this symphony has gone up over time along with the overall estimation of RVW as one of the most important composers of the 20th century. Perhaps some don't regard it as a proper symphony. I don't think that matters much anymore. (I recall something Thomas Pyncheon wrote about Mozart's lost Kazoo Concerto. ::) I might have to draw the line at that...)
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Dundonnell

Quote from: drogulus on July 18, 2008, 01:57:34 PM
     The impression I get, based on the reaction here at GMG and from what little I've read elsewhere, is that the reputation of this symphony has gone up over time along with the overall estimation of RVW as one of the most important composers of the 20th century. Perhaps some don't regard it as a proper symphony. I don't think that matters much anymore. (I recall something Thomas Pyncheon wrote about Mozart's lost Kazoo Concerto. ::) I might have to draw the line at that...)

You are absolutely correct about both RVW's overall reputation and the Sinfonia Antartica.

Many members on here have pointed out repeatedly that the concept of a 'proper symphony' has become eroded in recent decades.

Wanderer

#514
Quote from: Christo on July 15, 2008, 06:37:57 AM
(I'm leaving too, tonight, for the blessed isle of Crete, for two weeks. Planning to play my Kalomiris and Skalkottas collection there, and read Kazantzakis again - who was from Crete, there's even a Kazantzakis museum. Will also be having the Boult/EMI RVW box with me, otherwise this post would be completely OT  8))

Sinfonia antartica would certainly be out of place in Crete, although the Fifth would fit in nicely (while amid the ruins of Knossos, for instance).  :)
You probably won't see this until after you return, but have fun and we're awaiting your traveling impressions!  8)

rw1883

These two sets are coming out next month from Music & Arts (The Art of Dmitri Mitropoulos):

http://www.musicandarts.com/0808_New_Class.html

Besides all the other selections the first set has the Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis and the second set has the VW 4th.  I have some of the other works on different labels, but the remastering is the "2008 digital restoration utilizing the revolutionary 'harmonic balancing" technique'".  I have the Furtwangler Bruckner set and the Toscanini Beethoven set that uses this same remastering technique and the results are excellent!  I've been wanting to hear the VW/Mitropoulos 4th so this might be the right time...

Paul

SE pipesmoker etc

Quote from: rw1883 on July 23, 2008, 05:54:01 PM
These two sets are coming out next month from Music & Arts (The Art of Dmitri Mitropoulos):

http://www.musicandarts.com/0808_New_Class.html

Besides all the other selections the first set has the Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis and the second set has the VW 4th.  I have some of the other works on different labels, but the remastering is the "2008 digital restoration utilizing the revolutionary 'harmonic balancing" technique'".  I have the Furtwangler Bruckner set and the Toscanini Beethoven set that uses this same remastering technique and the results are excellent!  I've been wanting to hear the VW/Mitropoulos 4th so this might be the right time...

Paul

I have the old Sony CD of this (together with the brilliant, original version of the 6 with Stokowski (when is Hickox going to record that?)). It's quite an electrifying, haunting version (sharp brass) and good sound quality. The Fantasia is also very good, very moving forward, but a little too quick for me (3 min faster then most versions), I'm a Thomson man otherwise, I like it dreamy...

Renfield

Quote from: rw1883 on July 23, 2008, 05:54:01 PM
These two sets are coming out next month from Music & Arts (The Art of Dmitri Mitropoulos):

http://www.musicandarts.com/0808_New_Class.html

Say what!?

I had no idea about this release; in general, not just concerning the Vaughan-Williams. Thank you! :)

eyeresist


Is there a list somewhere of which M&A releases have the "harmonic balancing"? Couldn't find anything on their site....

eyeresist

I think I am starting to "get" Vaughan Williams, thanks to Gibson's interpretation of symphony 5. Compared to Previn/LSO this has warmer sound, but is also more emotional. The first movement has a hushed expectancy, while the 3rd movement has a great yearning quality. Finale could have been taken with more vigour. Incidentally, I found this movement made me think of some sort of filmic finale, though the only one I could specify was the climax of Peter Weir's film Fearless, which I think has fugal accompaniment.

For both Gibson and Previn I thought the 2nd movement wasn't nearly presto as required, and the finale lacked true allegro. I suspect this is common performing practice, perhaps from a subconscious wish to make this another "Pastoral" symphony. Perhaps earlier performances are more stringent here?

I've now heard the 6th symphony conducted by Previn, Handley and Berglund. I'm not sure any of them get it quite right. I feel this work needs strongly felt underlying tension, almost (dare I say it?) Shostakovichian. I wonder if the Andrew Davis performance will meet my requirements...