Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[karlhenning]

I wonder if disappointingly staid as a phrase is found much in the company of Ken Russell . . . ?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I wonder if disappointingly staid as a phrase is found much in the company of Ken Russell . . . ?

Staid isn't. Hence Jeffrey's disappointment. 

[lukeottevanger]

You mean 8.

I mean, I typed that post in a furious hurry! Dishwasher started to leak all over the kitchen floor....

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I mean, I typed that post in a furious hurry! Dishwasher started to leak all over the kitchen floor....

All is forgiven.

[knight66]

Luke, Your time was not wasted. I guess M was the grit that in legend is needed to form the pearl. I found your prompted discourses very illuminating and as I indicated; they have encouraged me to get hold of and explore more of his music and that is one of the more worthwhile purposes of the board.

Mike

[vandermolen]

Staid isn't. Hence Jeffrey's disappointment. 

OT

Oh yes! I loved those mad Mahler and Tchaikovsky films. His tribute to the sculptor Gaudia-Brzeska "Savage Messiah", is actually a v good film.

[Sergeant Rock]

My favourite recordings:

A Sea Symphony: Boult/LPO

A London Symphony: Barbirolli/Hallé (Dutton), Hickox/LSO (original 1913 version)

A Pastoral Symphony: Boult/LPO

Symphony No 4: Bernstein/NY Phil, Vaughan Williams/BBC (Naxos)

Symphony No 5: Menuhin/RPO, Haitink/LPO

Symphony No 6: Davis/BBC

Symphony 7: Boult/LPO, Haitink/LPO, Previn/LSO

Symphony No 8: Barbirolli/Hallé (Dutton), Haitink/LPO

Symphony No 9: Haitink/LPO, Bakels/Bournemouth


Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Oh yes! I loved those mad Mahler and Tchaikovsky films. His tribute to the sculptor Gaudia-Brzeska "Savage Messiah", is actually a v good film.

And wth some very nice nudity from Helen Mirren, long before she became Queen of England 

Sarge

[scarpia]

Thanks for all the detailed replies. I didn't have time to read through all of them, however, the first reply to my last post by sound67, a self-declared VW expert, already confirmed what I had suspected, namely that VW's music can apparently only be appreciated by comparing it to more famous composers of his era, and putting these down. But I am not interested in that. I am only interested in music which stands on its own. Apparently, VW's music doesn't.
According to several people here, it only gains status as some kind of anti-thesis to composers like Mahler and Strauss, and others. Funny, I am not even into Mahler that much right now, in fact, I have been tired of and taking a break from his music for a long time now and wanted to explore music which is radically different and which offers me contrasting perspectives on how musical material can be sourced, used, and developed to make coherent, relevant statements which stand on their own. That does not seem to be the case here with VW. According to sound67, being a trained musician also stands in the way of appreciating his music. I do not know of any other composer where that is the case. In fact, understanding music from the point of view of a trained musician usually enhances enjoyment of just about any kind of musical style. Since that is not the case here, I think I will just pass and spend my time better exploring the music of more relevant composers than this marginal English phenomenon, like VW's teacher Ravel from whom I have never heard a single bar of music, be it orchestral, chamber music, or songs, which did not deeply fascinate and intrigue  me. The only open question which remains here is, why is England among all the major cultures of Europe the only one which is such a complete failure when it comes to music of any kind of status or influence? Why do even English musicians prefer to perform the music of such composers that their local heroes, like VW, get compared to by the "experts"? Why is his music performed far less even in England than any given composer - and I mean any, even the more marginal figues included - from the standard canon of French - German - Austrian - Czech - Russian composers? Wy does it not stand on its own, but only as a negative comparison to these by pseudo-intellectuals?

You relentlessly scold posters here for not replying to your demand that they define the V-W idiom, then when extremely thoughtful replies are posted, you don't have time to read them, but find that your lack of appreciation  of V-W after listening to a few recordings is evidence of a deficiency in the British nation?  What petulant nonsense!

[DavidRoss]

You relentlessly scold posters here for not replying to your demand that they define the V-W idiom, then when extremely thoughtful replies are posted, you don't have time to read them, but find that your lack of appreciation  of V-W after listening to a few recordings is evidence of a deficiency in the British nation?  What petulant nonsense!

Remind you of anyone you know? 

Re. RVW:  the discussion here, particularly Luke's posts, has spurred me to listening to RVW again with fresh ears--and this in spite of some recent Henning compositions clamoring to be heard!  Last night I listened to the Hilary Hahn/Colin Davis/LSO Lark Ascending -- more beautiful and more nearly perfect to my ears each time I hear it (this is one case in which I think the balance spotlighting the soloist works very well) -- and to the Slatkin/Philharmonia Pastoral Symphony -- inspired by RVW's experience in the war, not by cowpats, in the midst of which my wife came in, sat beside me, and listened, then requested that I rip a copy so she can add it to her Sansa player.

[scarpia]

Remind you of anyone you know? 

You are referring to yourself, I assume?

[Guido]

I know all 32 symphonies almost by heart, and I can't really choose a favourite. There are beauties everywhere.

Wow, that's amazing! Do recordings of all 32 exist? Or do you know the scores by heart?

[lukeottevanger]

Yes they do - not easy to get hold of, but certainly easier than most of the scores! I only have 4 of the symphonies in score, and three of those were gifts from Holland  ; in addition to these, I think Johan has two or three more scores.

[DavidRoss]

You are referring to yourself, I assume?

Wrong again...but then why spoil your perfect record?  

I wonder if disappointingly staid as a phrase is found much in the company of Ken Russell . . . ?

Saw this belatedly, Karl.  Not only amusing, but set me to wondering what a Ken Russell RVW bioflick might be like.  

[Christo]

That, of course, is horse shit from first to last

A fair verdict on the quality of the response, imho, and duly noted.  (But, as many here, I'm quite happy with the result, an RVW thread come to full life again and making us all listen to his music afresh.) 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I only have 4 of the symphonies in score, and three of those were gifts from Holland  ; in addition to these, I think Johan has two or three more scores.

I have scores (some of them were absurdly expensive) of the Piano Music, Violin Concerto and symphonies 3, 7, 8, 10, 11, 21 and 22.

I 'know' all of the 32 symphonies virtually by heart, because I have been listening to them over and over again for 30 years...

[lukeottevanger]

I have scores (some of them were absurdly expensive) of the Piano Music, Violin Concerto and symphonies 3, 7, 8, 10, 11, 21 and 22.

Not the Gothic? Surely you have that one - it's the only one that's easy to get hold of!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Not the Gothic? Surely you have that one - it's the only one that's easy to get hold of!

No... There was a copy at the Music Library in Amsterdam when I was a member there, and that was good enough for me (80s). And I haven't bought it since because the score is riddled with mistakes, which only now have been corrected in a new edition by the HBS (with the Sibelius programme). This edition will be used for the (hopefully!) upcoming performance of 'The Gothic' in Australia in 2009  (see my latest addition to the Havergal Brian thread...)

[vandermolen]

And wth some very nice nudity from Helen Mirren, long before she became Queen of England 

Sarge

Why else do you think I recommend it  She made a memorable contribution to Excalibur also.

[vandermolen]

My favourite recordings:

A Sea Symphony: Boult/LPO

A London Symphony: Barbirolli/Hallé (Dutton), Hickox/LSO (original 1913 version)

A Pastoral Symphony: Boult/LPO

Symphony No 4: Bernstein/NY Phil, Vaughan Williams/BBC (Naxos)

Symphony No 5: Menuhin/RPO, Haitink/LPO

Symphony No 6: Davis/BBC

Symphony 7: Boult/LPO, Haitink/LPO, Previn/LSO

Symphony No 8: Barbirolli/Hallé (Dutton), Haitink/LPO

Symphony No 9: Haitink/LPO, Bakels/Bournemouth


Sarge

The Bernstein No 4 is good. Pity he didn't record No 6. Must listen again to Menuhin No 5; a good coupling with the Piano Concerto and also Bakels No 9.