Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[vandermolen]

Do the movements "hold up" from start to finish in your experience, or do you find significant lapses in the middle sections like I do?

Have you had any awareness of seriously flagging attention for considerable stretches while listening?

Just listened again to the Bate Viola Concerto again to check. No, my attention too was pretty well gripped throughout - although the last movement is perhaps a bit rambling in places. I do really like the work, with its endearing mix of Vaughan Williams and Shostakovich.

[J]

Just listened again to the Bate Viola Concerto again to check. No, my attention too was pretty well gripped throughout - although the last movement is perhaps a bit rambling in places. I do really like the work, with its endearing mix of Vaughan Williams and Shostakovich.

Well then.  I'll assume those "dead" sections I complain about express something idiosyncratically British, and so fail to elicit the sympathetic resonance in me they do in you and Colin.     

[Dundonnell]

Well then.  I'll assume those "dead" sections I complain about express something idiosyncratically British, and so fail to elicit the sympathetic resonance in me they do in you and Colin.     

[Christo]

Well then.  I'll assume those "dead" sections I complain about express something idiosyncratically British, and so fail to elicit the sympathetic resonance in me they do in you and Colin.     

As you will agree, the most fitting epitaph for any Briton is Dorothy Parker's famous response when she was told that Calvin Coolidge had died: `How can they tell?' 

[Dundonnell]

As you will agree, the most fitting epitaph for any Briton is Dorothy Parker's famous response when she was told that Calvin Coolidge had died: `How can they tell?' 

"As you will agree..."

Who will agree? I certainly don't!

Are you seeking to launch the Fifth Anglo-Dutch War, Johan

[Christo]

Are you seeking to launch the Fifth Anglo-Dutch War, Johan

Were you dissatified with the outcome of the Fourth (1780-84) then? 

[Dundonnell]

Were you dissatified with the outcome of the Fourth (1780-84) then? 

Not at all!  I seem to recall that your fleet had to be scattered to your overseas colonies because the British(when they were not being confused for dead ) controlled the North Sea. I thought that it was perhaps you who might be seeking more redress

[Guido]

Are you seeking to launch the Fifth Anglo-Dutch War, Johan

We've had four already?! Well you learn something new every day.

[Dundonnell]

We've had four already?! Well you learn something new every day.

You are a scientist, Guido...wouldn't expect you to know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Dutch_Wars

[Guido]

You are a scientist, Guido...wouldn't expect you to know

Quite! If you can't measure it in some way, I'm not interested! 

[Renfield]

Quite! If you can't measure it in some way, I'm not interested! 

*counts to four on his fingers*


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is embodied cognition(??)!

(I can't let you lot play on your own, now, can I?)

[Dundonnell]

I can't go nearly so far as Colin & Jeffrey in their praise of Bate's Viola Concerto (I think Jeffrey went even further elsewhere and called it "a magnificent score").  I've listened to the piece perhaps a dozen times now, and for what it's worth my own response is rather mixed.  There's some very inspired and beautiful music here I feel, but plenty also of what is sometimes called "note-spinning". In the 2nd movement for example, the basic theme and opening four minutes are captivatingly beautiful and first-rate.  But almost right at that point (4') the quality of the music noticeably changes (IMO), the inspiration disappears, and everything becomes rather prolix and tedious, and my attention wanders until just about the 8' mark where the opening music returns and brings me back.  The same thing happens in the 1rst movement (and to a large extent the 4rth) - initial involvement and enthusiasm that isn't sustained - but returns at the end.  I have little capacity for musical analysis, but I believe in what's called the "development phase" of the three long movements (1,2,&4), where Bate elaborates on and complexifies his themes, the music is lacking, - it's prosaic, and often too loud and over-saturated.  He can't really carry things through with the same inspiration he starts with, and that compromises my enjoyment of the piece severely.
   

I know that this a thread about Vaughan Williams and I apologise to the Grand Old Man(who would not have objected to the digression!)...... but the April issue of 'Tempo' has a review of the Bate Viola Concerto by Brett Johnson. Johnson writes-

"A wondrous CD....It is true that Bate felt a strong affinity with his teacher Vaughan Williams, whose influence is strongly felt at places in the Viola Concerto. But how Bate picks up VW's emotional language and makes it his own! This is emphatically not a work of discipleshp but a powerful essay of lyrical grandeur. The heavily atmospheric slow movement and the ensuing feather-light scherzo are masterly, in my opinion."

Johnson goes on to say that Dutton are planning to record two of Bate's four symphonies this year This is fantastic news!! Hopefully the two will be Nos. 3 and 4(of whom good things have been written). Once again we shall be in debt to the enterprise of this marvellous little company

[karlhenning]

I like his hymnody, but I had much rather sing it than listen to a recording of it (FWIW).

[Catison]

I like his hymnody, but I had much rather sing it than listen to a recording of it (FWIW).

Have you heard his Henry V Overture for brass band?  It is quite something!!  We played it in the band, and it was a riot to perform.  In the right hands, though, it is breathtaking, if you like your music a little bombastic.

[karlhenning]

A little bombast now and again isn't at all a bad thing!

[vandermolen]

Have you heard his Henry V Overture for brass band?  It is quite something!!  We played it in the band, and it was a riot to perform.  In the right hands, though, it is breathtaking, if you like your music a little bombastic.

It's a great piece - I have the Chandos CD. It influenced Walton's score for the movie Henry V.

[Catison]

It's a great piece - I have the Chandos CD. It influenced Walton's score for the movie Henry V.

Listening to the Vaughan Williams film music now, and it appears that some of the themes to the overture come from the score to The People's Land, or perhaps the other way around.

[karlhenning]

Fresh listen to the Tallis Fantasia, which I remember really enjoying live at Symphony.

[karlhenning]

Flos campi is certainly on my short list of Desert Island RVW!

Write it off as a personal/composerly thing . . . but there are tunes I've used in music of my own, knowledge of which I certainly owe to Vaughan Williams . . . but, well, I like my pieces better.

Lest that give a seeming of patting mine own back . . . this idea (of preferring my own, of a brace of pieces based on the same earlier source-material) hadn't occurred to me until a colleague paid me the compliment of saying he liked my "Fantasy on a Tallis Theme" better than the Vaughan Williams.  Before then, the idea of comparison was off my screen (it has to be, to write one's own music in such a case).  But, my own score now long finalized . . . and much though I do like the Vaughan Williams, well . . . one's own shirt is closer to one's skin.

[knight66]

I see no problem what ever in you liking your own creations more. Now the real question: do you think your work of a higher quality?  0:)

Mike