Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[eyeresist]

I have the operas in the Collector's Edition. I've listened to Progress and part of Sir John, and wasn't hugely impressed with either. I think part of the problem was that the vocals were too prominent, obscuring the interesting stuff happening in the orchestra (the orchestra sounds much better in the rehearsal supplement for Pilgrim's Progress). But even with that aside, I thought the best bits of Progress were the parts I already knew from the symphony; and Sir John was disappointingly lacking in appealing melody, which I had been led to believe was its main attraction. I haven't heard Riders to the Sea.

[Mirror Image]

I have the operas in the Collector's Edition. I've listened to Progress and part of Sir John, and wasn't hugely impressed with either. I think part of the problem was that the vocals were too prominent, obscuring the interesting stuff happening in the orchestra (the orchestra sounds much better in the rehearsal supplement for Pilgrim's Progress). But even with that aside, I thought the best bits of Progress were the parts I already knew from the symphony; and Sir John was disappointingly lacking in appealing melody, which I had been led to believe was its main attraction. I haven't heard Riders to the Sea.

Thank you for your opinion. I had lingering doubts about his operas for whatever reasons. I would still like to listen to the music and judge for myself though.

[eyeresist]

Thank you for your opinion. I had lingering doubts about his operas for whatever reasons. I would still like to listen to the music and judge for myself though.

Of course! I hope you will find more in them than I did. I confess I am not a great fan of opera or vocal music generally, but I tried to be openminded in the case of a composer whose orchestral works I love. I will of course try these works again at some point.

[vandermolen]

What do you all think of RVW's operas? I haven't heard any of them as many may know I'm not a big opera fan, but I'm anxious to hear Sir John In Love and The Pilgrim's Progress.

I'm not an opera fan either, but having had the good fortune to see The Pilgrim's Progress in London a couple of years ago (Hickox conducting and his son singing the poignant woodcutter's boy scene), I have come to the conclusion that this is possibly his greatest work - it was about the most moving musical experience ever for me.

Here's a review:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/jun/24/classicalmusicandopera.livemusicreview

[Sergeant Rock]

Having a very tough time choosing a Vaughn Williams symphony series. I've been looking at a series because of the sheer rediculous price on EMI these days. Here is what I have been looking at:
Symphonies, Handley (~$24 all in and includes a few other pieces)
RVW Set (30 discs at $44)
Symphonies, Thomson ($54)
Symphonies, Boult ($43)
Symphonies 4-6, Gibson and Silvestri ($9)

The big EMI set seems like a great deal, except I haven't yet really fallen in love with his music and 30 discs is a lot to buy when one is not sure how one will ultimately come down on the music.  And $24 isn't a bad deal for all that music either (which is what I was orignally considering).

What do you think?

I agree with MI in that the Handley cycle is my least favorite (besides Handley, I own Haitink, Thomson, Previn, Boult EMI and Bakels--skipped Daniel's contributions to the Naxos cycle--plus most everything that Baribirolli recorded). But, I agree with Lethe in recommending you start with Handley...or with eyeresist's Previn. The reasons? Because both conductors and their orchestras deliver really good performances (sometimes outstanding or even the best, i.e., Previn's Third and Fifth) that have gathered critical acclaim for decades....and because they are the cheapest   If you aren't sure whether you're even going to like the music, I just can't see spending money on an expensive set like Thomson's.

My personal favorites:

Boult EMI (I prefer these later, more laidback and better recorded performances to his earlier Decca cycle): he just sounds right--not only in Vaughan Williams but in practically every British composer he conducted.

Haitink for a spacious and profoundly "symphonic" take on the music (my favorite 1, 7, 8 and 9)

Thomson I haven't fully lived with but it's shaping up to be another favorite. Only disappointments so far: a rushed (especially compared to Haitink and Previn) Ninth, lacking a sense of mystery and an underwhelming, in a dramatic sense, Seventh. Quite impressed, though, by 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8. Still need to hear 1 and 6.

If you buy a box, and find you like the music, you'll need several additions: Berglund's Sixth has been mentioned already. Bernstein's Fouth (still my favorite). Previn's Telarc Fifth. Hickox's Second with the orignal slow movement. Bakel's Ninth (an incredibly dramatic reading). Haitink's Seventh--stunning sound and interpretation! And, although a very personal choice, I recommend Barbirolli's Hallé recordings of 2 and 8 on Dutton. You'll not hear a more nostalgic sounding "London" Symphony.

Sarge

[eyeresist]

Sarge, I agree regarding Thomson in the 7th. He has the most underwhelming organ I've encountered.


And yes, you can take that as a weak sexual pun if you really must.

[drogulus]

     I would choose the Boult/EMI if I had to limit myself to a single set.

     It can be obtained for $33 from Amazon, not $43. That should tilt the field towards Boult just a little, though I will be getting the Thomson set at some point. I have the RVW 30 CD collection with Handley, but I haven't listened yet.

     

I must admit, at times I found even the simple tracklisting in the Collector's Edition to be woefully unclear in its layout. If you can't get a tracklisting right, what can you do, EMI?

     Right now I'm engaged in a mammoth project of retagging the whole box. This involves loading the files into iTunes and asking it to retag, then finishing the tags by hand to correct using the booklet. You can't imagine how much work this is unless you've done it before. Fortunately some of the discs have tags that are good enough to work with without bulk retagging.

[Guido]

I'm not an opera fan either, but having had the good fortune to see The Pilgrim's Progress in London a couple of years ago (Hickox conducting and his son singing the poignant woodcutter's boy scene), I have come to the conclusion that this is possibly his greatest work - it was about the most moving musical experience ever for me.

Here's a review:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/jun/24/classicalmusicandopera.livemusicreview

I couldn't believe that I'd missed it - I only found out the day after it happened... and it's so rare that it gets done - as the review says the first time in over 50 years... Well, maybe in 2058...

[Mirror Image]

I'm not an opera fan either, but having had the good fortune to see The Pilgrim's Progress in London a couple of years ago (Hickox conducting and his son singing the poignant woodcutter's boy scene), I have come to the conclusion that this is possibly his greatest work - it was about the most moving musical experience ever for me.

Here's a review:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/jun/24/classicalmusicandopera.livemusicreview

I bet that was a great concert. Wish I could have seen it.

[Lethevich]

     Right now I'm engaged in a mammoth project of retagging the whole box. This involves loading the files into iTunes and asking it to retag, then finishing the tags by hand to correct using the booklet. You can't imagine how much work this is unless you've done it before. Fortunately some of the discs have tags that are good enough to work with without bulk retagging.

My OCD means everything I have must be tagged perfectly uniformly - any tag database suggestions are usually so far out that I never bother to check them, doing them all from scratch (not to mention they generally have spelling mistakes in the tempo markings anyway). Once I finish tagging Hyperion's Liszt edition I will view this as my crowning - yet also most pointless - achivement

[drogulus]

    With 30 CDs I take each one in turn, look at the tags to see if they're mostly right, and if so I make my corrections and additions. If they're way off base I load them into various programs until I get something good enough to work with. When I ....uh...only have the files I might sometimes burn a disc to get good tags. This will work quite often when no program tags the files sensibly. When I load the disc a program that had been spitting out Chinese characters (literally) will say, in effect "Ohhhh, you mean this! Why didn't you say so?". I still have about 12 discs left undone.

[Scarpia]

I gave up any hope of getting iTunes to manage my music collection, so I developed my own system which is simple, but serves my needs.

Whenever I rip a CD I do it as a flac file with cue sheet, which goes in its own folder.  I assume the cue sheet is sufficient to figure out which track is which when I load in foobar, but I subsequently ignore it.  In that folder I put a simple text file which has to be called "contents.txt"  In that text file I put the information I am interested in a simple but rigid format.  I have a c code I have written which scans all subfolders, looks for files called "contents.txt" and compiles a list of everything it finds.  At the end it spits out an html file which lists the information about each "contents.txt" it found, with a link to the folder where it was found.  There are lists sorted by composer, by conductor, by performer, by opus number. 

So far it works very nicely.  The cue sheets are derived from that freebd database, and I was thinking of making a little program to read the cue sheet and spit some information into a contents.txt file that I could subsequently edit, but I generally find the information in freebd to be only slightly better than worthless for classical titles.

[mc ukrneal]

I was not expecting so many replies - and very helpful they were too! I just realized the Haitink can be had for $25-30, so that enters the mix too...

[Scarpia]

I was not expecting so many replies - and very helpful they were too! I just realized the Haitink can be had for $25-30, so that enters the mix too...

Some hate it because it is not played in the British fashion.  When they complain, it sounds to me like they resent that he makes the music sound too good.  I like it.

[Catison]

I gave up any hope of getting iTunes to manage my music collection, so I developed my own system which is simple, but serves my needs.

Whenever I rip a CD I do it as a flac file with cue sheet, which goes in its own folder.  I assume the cue sheet is sufficient to figure out which track is which when I load in foobar, but I subsequently ignore it.  In that folder I put a simple text file which has to be called "contents.txt"  In that text file I put the information I am interested in a simple but rigid format.  I have a c code I have written which scans all subfolders, looks for files called "contents.txt" and compiles a list of everything it finds.  At the end it spits out an html file which lists the information about each "contents.txt" it found, with a link to the folder where it was found.  There are lists sorted by composer, by conductor, by performer, by opus number. 

So far it works very nicely.  The cue sheets are derived from that freebd database, and I was thinking of making a little program to read the cue sheet and spit some information into a contents.txt file that I could subsequently edit, but I generally find the information in freebd to be only slightly better than worthless for classical titles.

iTunes has gotten better within the last year for managing a classical collection, so I use that now.  I finally just accept that as long as I can find the music I'm looking for, that is good enough.  I like to have all of the cover art right, though.

I've gone all digital now.  Kindle for books, Airtunes for stereo, AppleTV and Roku box for movies.  I'm not sure if I want an iPad or not, but so far it is working out well.

[Mirror Image]

I gave up any hope of getting iTunes to manage my music collection, so I developed my own system which is simple, but serves my needs.

Whenever I rip a CD I do it as a flac file with cue sheet, which goes in its own folder.  I assume the cue sheet is sufficient to figure out which track is which when I load in foobar, but I subsequently ignore it.  In that folder I put a simple text file which has to be called "contents.txt"  In that text file I put the information I am interested in a simple but rigid format.  I have a c code I have written which scans all subfolders, looks for files called "contents.txt" and compiles a list of everything it finds.  At the end it spits out an html file which lists the information about each "contents.txt" it found, with a link to the folder where it was found.  There are lists sorted by composer, by conductor, by performer, by opus number. 

So far it works very nicely.  The cue sheets are derived from that freebd database, and I was thinking of making a little program to read the cue sheet and spit some information into a contents.txt file that I could subsequently edit, but I generally find the information in freebd to be only slightly better than worthless for classical titles.

Since I rip a lot of my CD collection to one of my iPods, I have to deal with the plague that is iTunes. Thankfully, I devised a system that hasn't failed me yet.

Everything I have on my iPod is located under albums, nothing else and I organize each recording like this:

Example of two box sets that have the same composer:

Vaughan Williams: The Complete Symphonies - Thomson [Disc 01]
Vaughan Williams: The Complete Symphonies - Thomson [Disc 02] and so on
Vaughan Williams: The Complete Symphonies - Boult [Disc 01] and so on

When I have recordings with the same work I define the recording by conductor like this:

Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker - Gergiev
Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker - Ozawa

and so on....

As I said, this system NEVER fails. Any questions just ask. I have ran into all the possible problems of organizing music via iTunes imaginable.

[vandermolen]

I bet that was a great concert. Wish I could have seen it.

Yes, I'm so glad I went - it was on my birthday too - so, a great birthday treat for me.

I also  have always found the Handley to be over-rated - the performances are ok but none would be a first choice. although in view of what has been said here I must listen to his 'A Pastoral Symphony' again. In fact his earler version of 'A London Symphony' with the LPO was superior to the Liverpool version in the boxed set. Handley's 'Job' is excellent and the harps at the end of the 9th Symphony are the clearest and most moving of all.

[knight66]

Since I rip a lot of my CD collection to one of my iPods, I have to deal with the plague that is iTunes. Thankfully, I devised a system that hasn't failed me yet.

Everything I have on my iPod is located under albums, nothing else and I organize each recording like this:

Example of two box sets that have the same composer:

Vaughan Williams: The Complete Symphonies - Thomson [Disc 01]
Vaughan Williams: The Complete Symphonies - Thomson [Disc 02] and so on
Vaughan Williams: The Complete Symphonies - Boult [Disc 01] and so on

When I have recordings with the same work I define the recording by conductor like this:

Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker - Gergiev
Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker - Ozawa

and so on....

As I said, this system NEVER fails. Any questions just ask. I have ran into all the possible problems of organizing music via iTunes imaginable.

I must be missing something here. I generally have the music sorted onto the iPod in albums. However, I loaded on Tristan und Isolde and then wanted to put on another version. Because the info came up with the same title, the tracks interleaved themselves, so there were two tracks 1, two tracks 2 etc. Have you found a way to relabel the music?

Mike

[Mirror Image]

I must be missing something here. I generally have the music sorted onto the iPod in albums. However, I loaded on Tristan und Isolde and then wanted to put on another version. Because the info came up with the same title, the tracks interleaved themselves, so there were two tracks 1, two tracks 2 etc. Have you found a way to relabel the music?

Mike

Yes, Mike you can rename anything on iTunes that you want. I rename the album titles, because I search by album. It should look like this if you change the album titles:

Wagner: Tristan und Isolde - Solti
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde - Bohm

...and so on.

When you do it this way, you have 2 seperate listings of one. The reason you have two is because you put the conductors name after the album title. Do you understand what I'm telling you?

Also, I put on one recording at a time to avoid any kind of confusion.

[knight66]

MI, Thanks, I understand the cataloguing concept and thought that I could do exactly as you suggest, but having played with the system for ages, I can't see how to make manual changes. Again after posting the previous post, I went through all buttons on the screen and all the tool bar options and I can't find how to edit the lines.

Sorry folks that this is off-topic. I won't keep on about it.

Mike