What's to be and what's not to be considered as Music?"

[Cato]

1:  Why not to use these instruments? They do their job (the instruments I mean), they add their aspects. Percussion instruments are of use in the orchestra, only they can't play the first (the second ...) fiddle. (Hope, you'll treat the statement on a large scale.)

2:  Well. Answering this q is likely to be tedious.  Here Ladies already complained of that.
It can also be time-consuming. I've mentioned above the restriction of my hours.  Außerdem beschäftige ich mich jetzt mit einem Oratorium (=Besides, I am now busy with an Oratorium).

What I'd say now is shortly answering it in this direction :

Händel, ISB, Mozart are worth listening to.

If you take, say, Wagner, the situation is a bit different. In the whole Tannhäuser practically only the ouverture is worth listening to. And only the first and somewhat the second part of it. And even in the best, first part - as far as I see - the string accompaniment needs improvement and further work, which Wagner failed to provide. Still it is, of course, impressive.

An astronomically "epic failure" to respond directly to the questions!   

But I expected this: we are told that we should listen to Handel, Bach, and Mozart (and sometimes Wagner, who apparently needed Sasha Bystrow/b] to punch up his leitmotifs).  We do NOT read an explanation of Bystrovian Theory about which specific "thoughts" Mozart expressed in e.g. his Symphony #39.   0:)

[jochanaan]

What you are speaking here about is the development of harmonious complexity, augmentation of it,
not of disorder and chaos, not decrease of harmonious complexity!
This direction happens only with the Retaining, Preservation, Keeping of everything positive and worth, that has already been elaborated!

Yet the modal system in vogue in the Renaissance had become so unwieldy because of accreted traditions that Monteverdi et al found it necessary to "start over" with a new system.  The old modes were not retained; the "major" and "minor" modes we're familiar with were actually not in use in Medieval and Renaissance music.  In the same way at the end of the 19th Century, tonality had become so complex that Schoenberg, who started as a tonal composer, found it necessary to start over with a new system that may seem arbitrary but is actually highly ordered and even melodic (though not in the traditional sense).

Is it - in your opinion - the right development, when the process is so interesting, that the Heart (=Melody) is completely thrown away?!

No.  Schoenberg himself said, "A Chinese poet speaks Chinese, but what does he say?"  Meaning that, even to the developer of atonality and 12-tone serialism, musical meaning was more important than the systems he used.

So the key words for the right direction are -
retaining, preservation, augmentation, addition, growth of harmonious complexity

Until the system becomes so complex that the heart is indeed lost and a new system is needed, lest musicians be found "putting new wine into old bottles." (Matthew 9:17)

[Mirror Image]

This thread is already eight pages too long...

[Mirror Image]

Reading through this thread it's quite easy to see what's going on here: the OP gives his opinion as fact and tells everyone else that they're wrong. It doesn't really matter what kind of argument is being directed back to the OP, he simply will counter with another 'factual opinion' and everyone will be wrong again. It's really a vicious cycle.

[milk]

Reading through this thread it's quite easy to see what's going on here: the OP gives his opinion as fact and tells everyone else that they're wrong. It doesn't really matter what kind of argument is being directed back to the OP, he simply will counter with another 'factual opinion' and everyone will be wrong again. It's really a vicious cycle.

Not only wrong, but stupid as well. Now that's chutzpah.

[Alexander_Bystrow]

Not only wrong, but stupid as well. Now that's chutzpah.

I see some people become yet more and more nervous.

Failing in arguments, they resort to bad language.

Well, this is improper.
How can't they feel properly ashamed?

[The new erato]

No no. We're all too busy listening to Schnittke's "Life with an idiot" to be ashamed.

I have to agree though that all the noisy stuff that John likes isn't real music. 

[North Star]

I'm away from GMG for a week, and miss all the fun.
Alex is a good boy and wants to avoid formalism.

[Alexander_Bystrow]

No no. We're all too busy listening to Schnittke's "Life with an idiot" to be ashamed.

I have to agree though that all the noisy stuff that John likes isn't real music.

Now to some people understanding is a tiny little bit seeping in.

[Alexander_Bystrow]

I'm away from GMG for a week, and miss all the fun.
Alex is a good boy and wants to avoid formalism.

Thank you!

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, fun time is over. Before we get to the point, which is no longer on the distant horizon but instead lies close at hand, where this turns from fun fest to sh!t toss, we are going to bid this topic farewell. Meantime, let's all contemplate our navels and decide what music really is.

GB