Great composers that are not your cup of tea

[Brahmsian]

For you, Ray, may I suggest: Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe, symphonic poem No. 13, S107

You are right Karl.  I need to explore his symphonic poems.  I have to be honest and have not heard them yet, perhaps one or two?

It is his piano music that just doesn't seem to do anything for me (at least at this point in time).  As with many other composers whose first impressions to me weren't the rosiest (see Mozart and Tchaikovsky).....well, obviously that can change.

I have no doubt that I will eventually find a great deal that I do enjoy in Liszt. 

[karlhenning]

I have trouble with Haydn and Mozart -- the 18th Century style sounds so foursquare and predictable to me, I get bored. I like certain works by them, but...zzz. In grad school I had to write 5 papers on Don Giovanni, I never want to hear that opera again

Well, that sort of overexposure is deadly.

Me, now, I had taken it as read that the Mozart violin concerti must be too early, too predictable (though some of the predictability of that era is a game, don't you think?), and that I should not much enjoy them.

Then I heard the Gidon Kremer recordings . . . .

[Amfortas]

Well, that sort of overexposure is deadly.

Me, now, I had taken it as read that the Mozart violin concerti must be too early, too predictable (though some of the predictability of that era is a game, don't you think?), and that I should not much enjoy them.

If by ''game'' you mean that the composers can play with your expectations, I agree, especially about Haydn.  Don't get me wrong, I am not disparaging the composers or their music. I just find the late 18th C sound does not appeal much to me.
I do agree about the Mozart violin concerti, they really don't hold my interest at all. As for the piano concerti--I know lightning will strike me for saying it because they are universally adored--they all sound too much alike to me (in my oh-so-very-humble opinion). 

[kishnevi]

You are right Karl.  I need to explore his symphonic poems.  I have to be honest and have not heard them yet, perhaps one or two?

It is his piano music that just doesn't seem to do anything for me (at least at this point in time).  As with many other composers whose first impressions to me weren't the rosiest (see Mozart and Tchaikovsky).....well, obviously that can change.

I have no doubt that I will eventually find a great deal that I do enjoy in Liszt. 

As far as S107 goes, allow me to suggest:
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(Tone Poems 3 and 6, for ease of reference, are Les Preludes and Mazeppa)

[karlhenning]

. . . I do agree about the Mozart violin concerti, they really don't hold my interest at all.

Ah, but you see, we don't agree any longer, because Gidon Kremer has removed the scales from my eyes (or, ears)!

As far as S107 goes, allow me to suggest:

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That looks very nice, indeed, Jeffrey.

[Amfortas]

Ah, but you see, we don't agree any longer, because Gidon Kremer has removed the scales from my eyes (or, ears)!

I'll take your word for it, but I should confess that violin concerti in general are not a favorite genre of mine. I don't like a lot of fiddling around (I know, I know)  -- my fave violin concerto would be the Sibelius

[mszczuj]

I just find the late 18th C sound does not appeal much to me.

It's for sure not composers' but performers' fault. They mostly think that Mozart's music is as perfect as it is similar to Eine kleine Nachtmusik. And play all Classical period music like that. They probably believe that final tonics was the most exciting events  in the spirtual world of Classical period composers.

[zamyrabyrd]

I really prefer Liszt's piano music or any of it that has piano like his songs or piano concerti. I tried to sit through his symphonic poems but they usually overpower me with tedium.

ZB

[karlhenning]

For you, too, ZB, may I suggest: Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe, symphonic poem No. 13, S107 : )

[Amfortas]

It's for sure not composers' but performers' fault. They mostly think that Mozart's music is as perfect as it is similar to Eine kleine Nachtmusik. And play all Classical period music like that. They probably believe that final tonics was the most exciting events  in the spirtual world of Classical period composers.

It's the music, but not a fault, it's just my taste. I prefer what happened in music after that period.

[Daverz]

Chopin (though I don't actively dislike his music)
Verdi (ditto)
Carter (I try, with little return)
The Renaissance polyphonists (and, no, it has nothing to do with religion.)

[Brian]

I tried the Liszt tone poem Karl so avidly recommends - wow, that's a bizarre little piece, isn't it? Short, snappy, and rather disconcertingly weird. I'll have to hear it again.

[ibanezmonster]

I tried the Liszt tone poem Karl so avidly recommends - wow, that's a bizarre little piece, isn't it? Short, snappy, and rather disconcertingly weird. I'll have to hear it again.

You ought to try some of his late piano pieces if you haven't. Like that times a million.

[Mirror Image]

For me - Wagner any time.

Not that I really dislike his music, but... I just don't have the patience to sit and listen to anyone of his operas from start to end. I've tried but to no avail.

Perhaps this is the general problem. It's incredibly hard to sit through a 4+ hour opera regardless of how good it is and, trust me, Wagner's operas are brilliant. The best thing I have found, for me, is to split the operas up over several days. Maybe listen to one act a day. His music is incredible and it does demand a lot from the listener, but you have to be realistic with your listening time.

[kishnevi]

The Renaissance polyphonists (and, no, it has nothing to do with religion.)

There is sometimes a bit of interchangeability and blandness in that genre, but for me great beauty.   You might want to try their secular music--a bit less bland, sometimes humor, and somewhat more varied in terms of what's going on in the music.

As to the thread topic:  almost anything from the 20th century that is not tonally based composed for larger forces.   My reactions vary between 1) it gives me a headache  2)it  bores me  and 3)I see what you're doing on the intellectual level, but frankly I don't hear anything that will motivate  me for a repeat listen.    Oddly enough,  music of that sort written for smaller forces--chamber size or solo instrument--usually does work for me.  Ligeti is a good example--I don't like his orchestral music,  I love his work for solo piano and string quartet.   The only exceptions to this rule seem to be Messiaen (almost everything including Quartour pour le Fin du Temps, bores me--the only thing I've heard by him I find halfway decent is Visions de l'Amen) and Boulez (Marteau sans Maitre can be used as the dictionary defintion of boring)

[Mirror Image]

There is sometimes a bit of interchangeability and blandness in that genre, but for me great beauty.   You might want to try their secular music--a bit less bland, sometimes humor, and somewhat more varied in terms of what's going on in the music.

As to the thread topic:  almost anything from the 20th century that is not tonally based composed for larger forces.   My reactions vary between 1) it gives me a headache  2)it  bores me  and 3)I see what you're doing on the intellectual level, but frankly I don't hear anything that will motivate  me for a repeat listen.    Oddly enough,  music of that sort written for smaller forces--chamber size or solo instrument--usually does work for me.  Ligeti is a good example--I don't like his orchestral music,  I love his work for solo piano and string quartet.   The only exceptions to this rule seem to be Messiaen (almost everything including Quartour pour le Fin du Temps, bores me--the only thing I've heard by him I find halfway decent is Visions de l'Amen) and Boulez (Marteau sans Maitre can be used as the dictionary defintion of boring)

I know these are your own opinions and feelings, but I find that a composer like Berg rewards the listener upon each listen. His orchestral music is amazing I think. Here we have a Mahlerian wild, emotional lyricism combined with a Schoenbergian, cerebral inwardness. It's not too hot and it's not too cold. It's somewhere in the middle. Berg does have his moments where he completely sets the orchestra on fire (i. e. the opera Wozzeck, Three Orchestral Pieces), but I thought even you would understand Berg. His music is quite approachable.

[kishnevi]

I know these are your own opinions and feelings, but I find that a composer like Berg rewards the listener upon each listen. His orchestral music is amazing I think. Here we have a Mahlerian wild, emotional lyricism combined with a Schoenbergian, cerebral inwardness. It's not too hot and it's not too cold. It's somewhere in the middle. Berg does have his moments where he completely sets the orchestra on fire (i. e. the opera Wozzeck, Three Orchestral Pieces), but I thought even you would understand Berg. His music is quite approachable.

Berg for me is the sort of composer whose craftmanship I can admire but who does not leave me with any urge to hear more.   Personally, I find more emotional content if Schoenberg than in Berg.   Just my ears, I suppose.

[Mirror Image]

Berg for me is the sort of composer whose craftmanship I can admire but who does not leave me with any urge to hear more.   Personally, I find more emotional content if Schoenberg than in Berg.   Just my ears, I suppose.

Wow, so you can listen through the Violin Concerto and remain emotionless? That's pretty interesting.

[karlhenning]

. . . and Boulez (Marteau sans Maitre can be used as the dictionary defintion of boring)

Oh, I don't agree, at all!

[karlhenning]

Franz Liszt

Also, Ray . . . although I'm not sure how fond you may be of 19^th-c. piano music, try Martha Argerich in the Sonata in b minor, S.178. If her playing doesn't engage you in this work, no one's will : )