Is classical music merely self-aggrandizing?

[karlhenning]

I do not understand this concept of "sincerity".

[joke]

Who do you suppose you're kidding?

[/joke]

[LaciDeeLeBlanc]

[joke]

Who do you suppose you're kidding?

[/joke]

I'm not kidding. I really don't know what he means.

[karlhenning]

I'm not kidding. I really don't know what he means.

I took your comment at face value, don't worry.

My joke was in questioning your sincerity (which, again, was not serious).

[karlhenning]

Great Geo MacDonald quote, BTW!

[LaciDeeLeBlanc]

I took your comment at face value, don't worry.

My joke was in questioning your sincerity (which, again, was not serious).

Ohh, my apologies. Sometimes the lack of nonverbal communication over the internet makes things difficult for me to understand things.

[greg]

i just saw this thread. The opening post......lol! I think we've gotten to the point where we're just really desperate to talk about anything.

I am, but my point is not meant to be funny. If I am wrong, could someone explain why we do this (book over a playstation?) I genuinly interested.

a book over the playstation! lol 
you have to change that "we" into "I", buddy

What about the innumerable guitar players who cannot read music? I have been to heavy metal and punk concerts before.  The main attraction at those concerts is not the music, it's the presence of the "artists"; it's all a great, big, loud party.  Nothing really wrong with great, big, loud parties though, nothing wrong with having a great time.  However, within the music at those concerts, there is no concept of balance. Everything is as loud as it could possibly be.  Notice, but there are exceptions, that many of those bands sound much cleaner and generally better on their albums.

no, i just have to comment here.... guitar players can read music, but in tablature form. That's all they need to know how to read, anyways. And it's not easy at first, either....... but i agree with the other stuff you said.

[Tancata]

I have been to heavy metal and punk concerts before.  The main attraction at those concerts is not the music, it's the presence of the "artists"; it's all a great, big, loud party.  Nothing really wrong with great, big, loud parties though, nothing wrong with having a great time.  However, within the music at those concerts, there is no concept of balance. Everything is as loud as it could possibly be.  Notice, but there are exceptions, that many of those bands sound much cleaner and generally better on their albums.

I don't mean to argue for the sake of arguing, but I'd like to add this isn't my experience. It's true rock gigs are more of a carnival than the average classical concert - perhaps they give a flavour of the opera a couple of centuries back, who knows - but the music is very important. (At least for good bands...).

Loudness  is terrible, true, but depending on the venue balance can be very good (it's a question of wearing good earplugs to appreciate it).

Now, I know you admit exceptions, but I think rock gigs are a little more musically interesting than you make out here. Spontaneity and jamming along the lines of rock gigs might be quite welcome in the concert hall a little more often, actually. 

As for Metallica, I have seen them and it wasn't especially thrilling...but there is better metal than that... 

[Bonehelm]

what!?...what?!....what!?

"Insincere?" Music is "insincere"?  Do you mean that all classical music is just one big lie?  Beethoven lied to us?  I do not understand this concept of "sincerity".

As for why I listen to classical music... I am a music student. Classical music is an outlet of education and extreme pleasure for me.  I love playing my trombone and I could not see myself do anything else. 

Sure, I suppose it's easy to become a snob about popular music. But after I have gone to an Opera and listen to vocalists who can fill up an entire concert hall with no microphones and sing in any sort of position (laying on their back or their stomach, squatting, crawling, etc.), I suddenly lose respect for lip-synching Brittany Spears. Now that's what I would call insincere, putting on a concert without even singing.  What about the innumerable guitar players who cannot read music? I have been to heavy metal and punk concerts before.  The main attraction at those concerts is not the music, it's the presence of the "artists"; it's all a great, big, loud party.  Nothing really wrong with great, big, loud parties though, nothing wrong with having a great time.  However, within the music at those concerts, there is no concept of balance. Everything is as loud as it could possibly be.  Notice, but there are exceptions, that many of those bands sound much cleaner and generally better on their albums.

What can most popular music teach you? (Notice, I say most because there are exceptions) What can you take away from classical music? There's a reason why this music has survived so many years.

Do I think I'm just inherently "better" than anybody else because I listen to classical music?  No.  Am I more valuable as a person? No. Because I listen to classical music, am I more capable of loving and being loved and appreciated? No, I don't think so. Am I smarter than everyone who doesn't listen to classical music? Not necessarily. Do I listen to better music? Yes I do.

As for being insincere and superficial...I can tell you that I could not do the work I do and practice my horn like I do if I did not love it and have a passion for it.

This post is gold...it speaks to me and for me.

[Steve]

I still believe at lot of these comments are proving my point. Its laughable that we have now descended into a debate about whether or not Scarlatti is spiritual - what an absurd question!

And as I said before, why do we not have these arguments over Metallica? The answer: because we put people like Scarlatti up in exalted towers and bow down to their "greatness", so we're not allowed to critisize them and must constantly search for profundities. Its pathetic. We are all, yet again, self-aggrandizing. What a bunch of deluded fools we are.

Your foolishly egalitarian comments would seem to level every artistic work our race has produced. There are great composers of Western Music, just as there are great musicians in every other genre of music. Besides your absurd Freudian points which seek (in a grossly condescening tone) to tell the members of this forum why we listen to music, you seem to suggest that the only reason that we do not discuss Metallica and other heavy metal music is purely philopsohical. All of which, of course, are entirely absurd. The reason I listen to classical music, discuss classical music, and spend large amounts of money collecting recordings, reading reviews, and going to concerts, is that I enjoy it. That is the only valid reason for listening to music. I don't enjoy Heavy Metal music. That's why I don't discuss it.

You are the only deluded fool on this thread.

[Kullervo]

Your foolishly egalitarian comments would seem to level every artistic work our race has produced. There are great composers of Western Music, just as there are great musicians in every other genre of music. Besides your absurd Freudian points which seek (in a grossly condescening tone) to tell the members of this forum why we listen to music, you seem to suggest that the only reason that we do not discuss Metallica and other heavy metal music is purely philopsohical. All of which, of course, are entirely absurd. The reason I listen to classical music, discuss classical music, and spend large amounts of money collecting recordings, reading reviews, and going to concerts, is that I enjoy it. That is the only valid reason for listening to music. I don't enjoy Heavy Metal music. That's why I don't discuss it.

You are the only deluded fool on this thread.

Steve, you shouldn't bother giving a reasonable answer to this. I notice that Michel has posted naught a word in some time now. I wonder why.

[Florestan]

Your foolishly egalitarian comments would seem to level every artistic work our race has produced. There are great composers of Western Music, just as there are great musicians in every other genre of music. Besides your absurd Freudian points which seek (in a grossly condescening tone) to tell the members of this forum why we listen to music, you seem to suggest that the only reason that we do not discuss Metallica and other heavy metal music is purely philopsohical. All of which, of course, are entirely absurd. The reason I listen to classical music, discuss classical music, and spend large amounts of money collecting recordings, reading reviews, and going to concerts, is that I enjoy it. That is the only valid reason for listening to music. I don't enjoy Heavy Metal music. That's why I don't discuss it.

Word.

[arkiv]

We love semi-complex elaboration, a quality not encountered in the majority.