Author Topic: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles  (Read 9202 times)

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2020, 12:13:36 PM »
I have the Kertesz set as hi-res downloads.  It sounds gorgeous in this remastering.   I've had most of these recordings in various CD incarnations over the decades.

Hi Dave - thanks for responding - I have just the older box shown before - curious, did you DL from Presto or elsewhere?  If you don't mind, what was the cost?  Still would LOVE to buy just the BD and get a booklet - looks like a Presto DL comes w/ a booklet.  Dave :)

Online Jo498

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2020, 12:19:29 PM »
My mistake. I thought I read somewhere that the VPO Kertesz is mono, but I can't find that now. The Eloquence issue doesn't say either way. It is from 1961, so mono would be anachronistic. Thanks for the correction.

(EDIT: I'm re-listening to it now and it is clearly stereo.)

The Fricsay, from 1960, is definitely in stereo.

There is an older mono recording with the RIAS orchestra (RSO Berlin), also DG, ASIN B0000AXM2T



With Kertesz there are two stereo recordings, one single with the Vienna Philharmonic that is hard to find and the other in the complete cycle with the London Symphony.
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Offline Daverz

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2020, 12:58:31 PM »
Hi Dave - thanks for responding - I have just the older box shown before - curious, did you DL from Presto or elsewhere?  If you don't mind, what was the cost?  Still would LOVE to buy just the BD and get a booklet - looks like a Presto DL comes w/ a booklet.  Dave :)

Sorry, checking my drive, I got confused again about what I've actually downloaded and what I've listened to on Qobuz.  There's not much difference in my playback interface between local files and files streamed from Qobuz.

https://open.qobuz.com/album/0002894830760

Qobuz also sells downloads to subsribers, and if you have their Sublime service the hi-res files are $40 (I have a lower $15/month service that allows me to listen to anything and download CD quality files, but without that steep discount).

With Kertesz there are two stereo recordings, one single with the Vienna Philharmonic that is hard to find and the other in the complete cycle with the London Symphony.

Here's the VPO recording at Presto:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8024470--dvorak-symphony-no-9-serenade-for-wind-instruments

Also in this box of Vienna recordings:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8642503--istvan-kertesz-in-vienna

« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 01:06:16 PM by Daverz »

Offline Baron Scarpia

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2020, 01:11:05 PM »
The Rowicki and Kertesz cycles are great. I have a soft spot for Dorati’s 7 with the LSO on Mercury.


« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 01:20:01 PM by Ratliff »

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2020, 01:42:51 PM »
The Rowicki and Kertesz cycles are great.

Yeah, both great. My favorite sets of the six I own.

Sarge
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Offline bluto32

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2020, 02:43:46 PM »
Just re-read this 3-page thread which started/ended in 2013 - currently going through my Dvorak collection and have culled out some duplicate recordings and decided to replace a few - now on the Dvorak Symphonies - I own the top 3 shown below which appear to be some 'favorites' in this discussion - BUT, just wondering about anything new and/or improved - the Kertesz recordings have been remastered by Decca and expanded (bottom, left) and yet again even w/ a BD (bottom, middle) - this latter set has received some superlative reviews but seems to be unavailable, i.e. OOP - one used copy is on sale for $800 USD in the Amazon MP!

[snip]

Dave

   

   

I have the old 6-disc Kertesz set (top-left image), and was wondering if the 9-disc "Collector's Edition" (bottom-left image) is remastered? The above post suggests that it is, but a review on Amazon implies that the first 6 discs may be identical to the old 6-disc set. Can anyone who owns both please confirm?

It's a shame the latest set (bottom-middle image) with the Blu-ray disc is already OOP.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 02:49:03 PM by bluto32 »

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2020, 02:54:39 PM »
Sorry, checking my drive, I got confused again about what I've actually downloaded and what I've listened to on Qobuz.  There's not much difference in my playback interface between local files and files streamed from Qobuz.

https://open.qobuz.com/album/0002894830760

Qobuz also sells downloads to subsribers, and if you have their Sublime service the hi-res files are $40 (I have a lower $15/month service that allows me to listen to anything and download CD quality files, but without that steep discount)......................

Thanks Dave for the information above!  :)

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2020, 03:11:55 AM »
Interesting about that Kertesz cycle available in hi-res from Presto, thankyou. 
If ever a recording deserved to be lovingly remastered, it is these - such great music-making, and fundamentally very well recorded by Decca - but it was not perfect, the recordings were always a bit presence-y with a bit of a glare from the violins in particular.  One reviewer at the time famously remarked (of the 8th I think, which is the earliest recording of the set) that it sounded as if it had been recorded in a zinc-tank.  This led to ridicule from other reviewers who demanded to know, what is a zinc-tank anyway?  Be that as it may, the problem undoubtedly exists.

My favourites in this Kertesz cycle are nos. 5 and 6, so I've shaken the moths out of my wallet and sprung for the hi-res flacs of just the 1st movement of each of these.  (I don't see any logical way that hi-res can bring anything to the party for recordings of this vintage, but hey, it was only 2 tracks.)  I've just had a listen to No.5 (which always was a slightly brighter recording than No.6, which latter is possibly the best-recorded of the whole cycle) - and, well, you don't have to trust these old ears which are well past their 'best by' date, but to me the hi-res flac is indistinguishable from my own needledrop of the original vinyl.  The original presence-y sound, faithfully reproduced here.

Easy to forget that the Kertesz and Rowicki cycles were recorded concurrently (Rowicki on Philips) and both with the LSO - those musicians must have been playing Dvorak in their sleep by the end of it all!

Offline Ras

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2020, 04:36:42 AM »
I love Pappano's "New World" Symphony (and the cello concerto with M. Brunello as soloist):

"Music is life and, like it, inextinguishable." - Carl Nielsen

Offline André

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2020, 06:44:32 AM »
Interesting about that Kertesz cycle available in hi-res from Presto, thankyou. 
If ever a recording deserved to be lovingly remastered, it is these - such great music-making, and fundamentally very well recorded by Decca - but it was not perfect, the recordings were always a bit presence-y with a bit of a glare from the violins in particular.  One reviewer at the time famously remarked (of the 8th I think, which is the earliest recording of the set) that it sounded as if it had been recorded in a zinc-tank.  This led to ridicule from other reviewers who demanded to know, what is a zinc-tank anyway?  Be that as it may, the problem undoubtedly exists.

My favourites in this Kertesz cycle are nos. 5 and 6, so I've shaken the moths out of my wallet and sprung for the hi-res flacs of just the 1st movement of each of these.  (I don't see any logical way that hi-res can bring anything to the party for recordings of this vintage, but hey, it was only 2 tracks.)  I've just had a listen to No.5 (which always was a slightly brighter recording than No.6, which latter is possibly the best-recorded of the whole cycle) - and, well, you don't have to trust these old ears which are well past their 'best by' date, but to me the hi-res flac is indistinguishable from my own needledrop of the original vinyl.  The original presence-y sound, faithfully reproduced here.

Easy to forget that the Kertesz and Rowicki cycles were recorded concurrently (Rowicki on Philips) and both with the LSO - those musicians must have been playing Dvorak in their sleep by the end of it all!

Very interesting post, thanks for that! I sometimes feel Kertesz is too forceful (nos 6 and 8 in particular) or maybe it’s the orchestra/recording that make them appear that way. That being said I consider his recordings of nos 5 and 7 just perfect. In comparison it’s Rowicki in no 5 that appears too forceful, certainly not letting the music breathe as it should (although Youtube may not be the best way to experience a recording’s qualities). While I consider the 5th to be a bucolic/rustic work, others see more drama than I think is in there. I heard it in concert (Jacob Hrusa) and it was both rousing and beguiling, a great performance. Kertesz replicates this experience best IMO.

Offline André

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2020, 07:57:31 AM »
Dvorak symphonies discography from Musicweb. 60 pages of listings, no comments on performances.


http://www.musicweb-international.com/Ntl_discogs/Balkan_symphonies/Dvorak_symphonies.pdf

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2020, 08:26:12 AM »
I wrote:

Interesting about that Kertesz cycle available in hi-res from Presto, thankyou. 
My favourites in this Kertesz cycle are nos. 5 and 6, so I've shaken the moths out of my wallet and sprung for the hi-res flacs of just the 1st movement of each of these.  (I don't see any logical way that hi-res can bring anything to the party for recordings of this vintage, but hey, it was only 2 tracks.)  I've just had a listen to No.5 (which always was a slightly brighter recording than No.6, which latter is possibly the best-recorded of the whole cycle) - and, well, you don't have to trust these old ears which are well past their 'best by' date, but to me the hi-res flac is indistinguishable from my own needledrop of the original vinyl.  The original presence-y sound, faithfully reproduced here.

Further to this, in some idle moments I've done a bit of visual analysis of one of these 24/96 files from Presto (Symphony 6, 1st movement), comparing it with my own needledrop plus four other digital files of the same recording, including a 16/44 flac also sourced from Presto, of the 2003 reissue (that appeared as a twofer of Symphonies 4,5 and 6) and also including one file representing the 2014 'Collectors' reissue.  These were visual comparisons using software on my laptop - I've already established to my own satisfaction that I can't hear any differences.

I've made a lot of detailed notes but the bottom line is - (1) I can see no significant difference between the 2003 reissue and the 2014 'Collectors' reissue, both 16/44 flac.
(2) the 2016 24/96 file does have some 'interesting' characteristics which set it apart from all the others.  Uniquely, it has some apparent music-related energy above 20KHz - not much, but it is there.  I was surprised, given the age of the recording and surely any original tapes will be dust 50 years later.
Also, relative to the other files the sound has been processed using both mild compression (to make it sound louder) and low-level expansion (to lower the ambient noise floor, eg between movements).  Like I say, compared with my needledrop (which being vinyl is also slightly 'naturally' compressed) I didn't hear any difference - until I noticed some surface noise. 
The other four files - which included a Spotify stream - were a match for each other within the limits of my measurements (ie to within 0.2dB) - and all showed about 5dB more dynamic in the louder passages, than the HR version.  (In practice this means that overall they sound quieter.)

« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 08:32:14 AM by aukhawk »