Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles

Started by TheGSMoeller, September 21, 2013, 05:11:22 PM

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Roasted Swan

Quote from: André on March 27, 2021, 05:31:50 AM
I have that in a Brilliant release. It is incomplete in that the 8th is conducted by Menuhin and the 9th by Paavo Järvi, both with the RPO. I find it good to superb, this latter epithet applying to the 7th symphony. I was curious to hear Kosler in the last two (he has recorded them), so I recently bought the 8th, also with the Slovak PO. It is as good as his 7th. Haven't heard the 9th though. Considering they exist and were recorded with the same orchestra I don't understand why Brilliant chose to exclude them from the set, though. The tone poems are included. Not a first or even second choice, but some great performances from Kosler and characterful playing from the Slovak Phil.

Andre - I did exactly the same - tracking down the "missing" 8&9.  The rest of your evaluation I would say is spot-on.  I got it in that big 40 disc Brilliant box which has some very fine recordings alongside some pretty average ones.  The String Quartets are excellent and (from memory) I like the Slovak PO/Kosler Stabat Mater too which has some real Slavic fervour in the choral singing.  The Jarvi No.9 is one of the most perverse performances of any standard work I can remember hearing!

André

Funny ! Why would they do that ? My set of the symphonies is a standalone box with individual cds. I also have Kosler's Requiem and Stabat Mater. The Requiem is quite fine but not on the level of Sawallisch or Ancerl, while the SM is one of the best, on a par with Smetacek - more consolatory, less desolate, a slightly different POV then.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: André on March 27, 2021, 12:11:46 PM
Funny ! Why would they do that ? My set of the symphonies is a standalone box with individual cds. I also have Kosler's Requiem and Stabat Mater. The Requiem is quite fine but not on the level of Sawallisch or Ancerl, while the SM is one of the best, on a par with Smetacek - more consolatory, less desolate, a slightly different POV then.

The Stabat Mater is a great work full stop!  There is something about Slavic choirs who bring an intensity and fervour to their singing that lifts music to quite another realm.  Kosler achieves that.  I have the Smetacek version but in all honesty don't remember much about it so I'll put that right as soon as I can!

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 26, 2021, 04:23:38 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Turns out I can't seem to find a decent very good condition set of the Kertesz (in any of the three formats) at a reasonable price.

How about Rowicki? How does this set compare to Kertesz (ie. performance energy, tempos, sound quality?)
There's a "Used-very good" one here for about $30.  https://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Symphonies-Anton%C3%ADn-Dvořák/dp/B0000041WV/ref=pd_sbs_3?pd_rd_w=HNVVH&pf_rd_p=2419a049-62bf-452e-b0d0-ca5b7e35a7b4&pf_rd_r=Y63C2GB3Z0X78CCQR4NC&pd_rd_r=3c1e4854-11f5-4309-894f-ae5879191a2b&pd_rd_wg=Y1CPn&pd_rd_i=B0000041WV&psc=1

PD
Pohjolas Daughter


Florestan

Re: this



I've attached a very detailed review for those interested.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Brahmsian

Quote from: Florestan on March 28, 2021, 05:54:34 AM
Re: this



I've attached a very detailed review for those interested.

Yes Andrei, I am tempted by this, particularly for some of the lesser known works.

Florestan

Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 28, 2021, 05:58:13 AM
Yes Andrei, I am tempted by this, particularly for some of the lesser known works.

I have it but haven't listened to it in its entirety. Whatever I've heard, though, I liked (precisely some lesser known works).
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

bluto32

#128
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 26, 2021, 05:51:07 AM
Oh well.....it looks like I am SOL for both Kertesz and Rowicki.  Can't find a good quality set of those at a humanly decent price.

The 9-disc non-remastered Kertesz set from 2014 is available from Amazon UK (~ £34) and Presto Classical (~ £42):



From what I've read, it seems to have the same mastering as the old 6-disc "portrait" set which I own. The sound on this is reasonable for mid 1960s.

Brahmsian

Quote from: bluto32 on March 29, 2021, 04:20:21 AM
The 9-disc non-remastered Kertesz set from 2014 is available from Amazon UK (~ £34) and Presto Classical (~ £42):



From what I've read, it seems to have the same mastering as the old 6-disc "portrait" set which I own. The sound on this is reasonable for mid 1960s.

Thanks, Bluto.

I did end up placing an order for a used (very good condition) copy of the original London 6-disc set from Amazon Canada at an ok price.

SonicMan46

Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 29, 2021, 07:27:47 AM
Thanks, Bluto.

I did end up placing an order for a used (very good condition) copy of the original London 6-disc set from Amazon Canada at an ok price.

Ray - same set that I've own a long time - you should be pleased.  Dave :)




Brahmsian

Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 29, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
Ray - same set that I've own a long time - you should be pleased.  Dave :)

Thanks Dave!  :)

I also ended up ordering the Suitner, Kubelik and the Naxos complete orchestral works.   :D  I went a bit crazy, but it has been a "project on the backburner" to re-discover Dvorak that I finally felt ready to start.

Madiel

I don't think anyone's been mentioning the box that started my Dvorak collection:



Contents include Harnoncourt's performances of Symphonies 7-9 and the Erben tone poems, which seem to be widely liked.

Also scores points from me for actually presenting In Nature's Realm / Carnival / Othello together, which doesn't happen often enough.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Rinaldo

What a delightful thread! Adding my two halíře (that's what we call cents over here): Rowicki for the early symphonies, Kubelík for the late, and to paraphrase an old Czech saying, while those two argue, Suitner laughs – I just wish the sound was better.

Otherwise, as John C. preached years ago:

Quote from: John Copeland on September 24, 2013, 03:04:34 PM
Suitner was one of the finest conductors - what a shame he is less known than some conductors these days because he was far better than most.  If you get a chance, have a listen to his controlled dynamics - he really knew how to make an Orchestra sound brilliant.  There's a Beethoven 9 out there by him which is also outstanding...

I want to love both Neumann and Kertesz but my heart doesn't agree with their tempi.


Roasted Swan

Quote from: Rinaldo on January 17, 2022, 06:54:28 AM
What a delightful thread! Adding my two halíře (that's what we call cents over here): Rowicki for the early symphonies, Kubelík for the late, and to paraphrase an old Czech saying, while those two argue, Suitner laughs – I just wish the sound was better.

Otherwise, as John C. preached years ago:

I want to love both Neumann and Kertesz but my heart doesn't agree with their tempi.

That's an interesting quote - I can understand that Kertesz favours generally quite fast tempi but I would have thought Neumann - especially in the analogue set - is not contoversial as far as tempo is concerned.  His dgital remake was very disappointing for me - just tired and matter of fact.  So apart from Suitner who do you favour?


Brian

Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 18, 2022, 12:23:00 AM
That's an interesting quote - I can understand that Kertesz favours generally quite fast tempi but I would have thought Neumann - especially in the analogue set - is not contoversial as far as tempo is concerned.  His dgital remake was very disappointing for me - just tired and matter of fact.  So apart from Suitner who do you favour?
It is interesting to me also - Kertesz I think is actually quite similar to Rowicki in some symphonies for tempo, while I do agree with him on Neumann - mostly just too slow. The names selected in general do speak to a good sense of taste!

Rinaldo

Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 18, 2022, 12:23:00 AM
That's an interesting quote - I can understand that Kertesz favours generally quite fast tempi but I would have thought Neumann - especially in the analogue set - is not contoversial as far as tempo is concerned.  His dgital remake was very disappointing for me - just tired and matter of fact.  So apart from Suitner who do you favour?

Oh, I wouldn't say controversial – while Neumann isn't really that slow, the orchestra feels slow, like someone kept very, very gently pressing on a vinyl record. For example, the opening of the Sixth: with Kubelík, the theme soars. Neumann (yeah, we're talking analogue), to my impudent ears, merely floats. That said, I don't dislike it, quite the contrary! A mightily fine achievement... And same goes for Kertész.

As for other favourites, Mackerras' 6-9 is fantastic – the loveliest Largo I've heard – and count me in the Fricsay's Ninth camp, but I'm generally a big fan of his. It's a close competition though and there are prominent cycles I've only sampled bits and pieces from (I've yet to hear any Bělohlávek, for example).

Rinaldo

#137
Quote from: Brian on January 18, 2022, 06:00:11 AMThe names selected in general do speak to a good sense of taste!

Thanks, Brian! Makes me feel less like an outcast ;D

Speaking of Mackerras, this vinyl beauty was issued last August by Supraphon:


Mountain Goat

I only have recordings of 7-9 and don't know the others very well at all, so I could do with a complete set. I'm strongly considering either Suitner or Pešek as they are both temptingly priced and seem highly regarded. One odd thing I've noticed is that a surprising amount of complete sets split symphonies between CDs, which is really annoying and completely unnecessary as none of them are that long! Unless a symphony is more than 80 minutes long there really is no excuse for this.

Brian

Quote from: Mountain Goat on January 18, 2022, 05:23:07 PM
I only have recordings of 7-9 and don't know the others very well at all, so I could do with a complete set. I'm strongly considering either Suitner or Pešek as they are both temptingly priced and seem highly regarded. One odd thing I've noticed is that a surprising amount of complete sets split symphonies between CDs, which is really annoying and completely unnecessary as none of them are that long! Unless a symphony is more than 80 minutes long there really is no excuse for this.
Absolutely Suitner of those two! Pesek is okay but a 5th choice. Suitner is especially passionate and committed in symphonies 3-6.