Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles

Started by TheGSMoeller, September 21, 2013, 05:11:22 PM

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Mountain Goat

Quote from: Brian on January 18, 2022, 05:39:10 PM
Absolutely Suitner of those two! Pesek is okay but a 5th choice. Suitner is especially passionate and committed in symphonies 3-6.

Thanks! I was leaning towards Suitner anyway. A lot of people seem to rate Kertesz, but it's more than twice the price and has the aforementioned splitting problem.

Brian

Yeah, there was an affordable reissue of Kertesz recently but it sold out and was deleted. Decca really doesn't care  :(

Madiel

Quote from: Mountain Goat on January 18, 2022, 05:23:07 PM
I only have recordings of 7-9 and don't know the others very well at all, so I could do with a complete set. I'm strongly considering either Suitner or Pešek as they are both temptingly priced and seem highly regarded. One odd thing I've noticed is that a surprising amount of complete sets split symphonies between CDs, which is really annoying and completely unnecessary as none of them are that long! Unless a symphony is more than 80 minutes long there really is no excuse for this.

I'm looking at getting Suitner myself.  I have 7-9 with Harnoncourt and 4-6 with Kertesz. Suitner is increasingly firming as the best approach for collecting the early symphonies I don't have, plus getting alternative readings of others.

Plus, of course, Suitner is available without those symphony splits (a point on which I agree with you entirely).
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Spotted Horses

Quote from: Brian on January 18, 2022, 06:42:51 PM
Yeah, there was an affordable reissue of Kertesz recently but it sold out and was deleted. Decca really doesn't care  :(

Not sold out:

https://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Collectors/dp/B00H5DNAPM/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3DHDWTQIOA257&keywords=dvorak+kertesz&qid=1642698876&sprefix=dvorak+kerte%2Caps%2C95&sr=8-2

I would agree the Decca treats Kertesz poorly. His Brahms/WPO set is my favorite "traditional" cycle and it has never been available in a elegant package. First into now-deleted Double Decca releases, then from Eloquence/Australia.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Brahmsian

Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 20, 2022, 08:16:32 AM
Not sold out:

https://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Complete-Symphonies-Overtures-Collectors/dp/B00H5DNAPM/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3DHDWTQIOA257&keywords=dvorak+kertesz&qid=1642698876&sprefix=dvorak+kerte%2Caps%2C95&sr=8-2

I would agree the Decca treats Kertesz poorly. His Brahms/WPO set is my favorite "traditional" cycle and it has never been available in a elegant package. First into now-deleted Double Decca releases, then from Eloquence/Australia.

I don't think that is the set Brian is referring to.

Brian

Technically it is although there was also one with a rustic village painting on the cover.

Decca needs to release a Kertesz Complete big box set. None of this "the London years," "the Vienna years" silliness.

Brahmsian

Quote from: Brian on January 20, 2022, 10:54:14 AM
Technically it is although there was also one with a rustic village painting on the cover.

Decca needs to release a Kertesz Complete big box set. None of this "the London years," "the Vienna years" silliness.

The rustic village painting is the iteration of the set I thought you were referring to as I think it is the remastered newest reissue.

Spotted Horses

Quote from: OrchestralNut on January 20, 2022, 11:00:06 AM
The rustic village painting is the iteration of the set I thought you were referring to as I think it is the remastered newest reissue.

You mean this one:



In all other cases I know about the Blu-ray Disc was a new master but the accompanying CDs were just copies of the previous issue. I assumed it would be the same here, but they could have done it differently in this instance, of course. The publicity seems to imply that the CDs are the new master as well, but I wouldn't trust that the advertising copy writers even know what is in the box.


As you probably already know, you can still get the Hi-Rez audio as a FLAC download from presto.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 20, 2022, 08:22:06 PM
You mean this one:



In all other cases I know about the Blu-ray Disc was a new master but the accompanying CDs were just copies of the previous issue. I assumed it would be the same here, but they could have done it differently in this instance, of course. The publicity seems to imply that the CDs are the new master as well, but I wouldn't trust that the advertising copy writers even know what is in the box.


As you probably already know, you can still get the Hi-Rez audio as a FLAC download from presto.

I looked at the Presto download out of curiosity - too expensive for my pocket but what struck me is that the first of this cycle (No.8) was recorded in February 1963.  I had it in my head they were about a decade older.  Astonishing sonics (in any CD version) for 60 year old recordings.  Those Decca engineers were magicians!

aukhawk

I find the sound on No.8 rather hard to take - a bit strident - but I agree the later recordings of the set (they improved progressively, with Nos 5 and 6 - December 1965 - being the best of all IMO) are very good 'for their time'.  Then again, when you listen to what Mercury and RCA were doing in the late '50s - why wouldn't they be?

Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 20, 2022, 08:22:06 PM


In all other cases I know about the Blu-ray Disc was a new master but the accompanying CDs were just copies of the previous issue. I assumed it would be the same here, but they could have done it differently in this instance, of course. The publicity seems to imply that the CDs are the new master as well, but I wouldn't trust that the advertising copy writers even know what is in the box.

Visual inspection of the waveforms shows that set definitely is remastered, compared with all previous CD iterations (singles, twofers, box sets) which seem to be identical. 
I think anyone would be hard-pressed to hear the difference, but the remastered set has a bit of peak compression compared with previous iterations, as well as some expansion in the quietest sections (background noise reduced, including hall ambience ie muted London noise).  Again purely by visual analysis, it is actually very similar to the original vinyl, apart from the ground noise level of course.

SonicMan46

Well, the last few days have been a 'selective' listening to my nearly 50-disc Dvorak collection, mainly chamber works, BUT this morning put a disc on from each of the first 3 boxes below of the Symphonies - have not changed my mind in years, i.e. still enjoy these performances - don't want to add anymore, however, cannot seem to find that re-mastered Kertesz set with a BD at a reasonable price - SO, has anything 'new' come out worth evaluating?  Thanks - Dave :)

Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 04, 2020, 06:54:27 AM
Just re-read this 3-page thread which started/ended in 2013 - currently going through my Dvorak collection and have culled out some duplicate recordings and decided to replace a few - now on the Dvorak Symphonies - I own the top 3 shown below which appear to be some 'favorites' in this discussion - BUT, just wondering about anything new and/or improved - the Kertesz recordings have been remastered by Decca and expanded (bottom, left) and yet again even w/ a BD (bottom, middle) - this latter set has received some superlative reviews but seems to be unavailable, i.e. OOP - one used copy is on sale for $800 USD in the Amazon MP!  Also saw the set by Belohlavek (bottom, right).

So, after 6+ years, please add comments on whether your preferences have changed and what 'newer' sets (either really new and/or remastered) have impressed you.  Are Kertesz, Kubelik, Suitner, and Rowicki still in the top tier?  Dave

     

Quote from: aukhawk on January 21, 2022, 01:31:31 AM
I find the sound on No.8 rather hard to take - a bit strident - but I agree the later recordings of the set (they improved progressively, with Nos 5 and 6 - December 1965 - being the best of all IMO) are very good 'for their time'.  Then again, when you listen to what Mercury and RCA were doing in the late '50s - why wouldn't they be?

Visual inspection of the waveforms shows that set definitely is remastered, compared with all previous CD iterations (singles, twofers, box sets) which seem to be identical. 
I think anyone would be hard-pressed to hear the difference, but the remastered set has a bit of peak compression compared with previous iterations, as well as some expansion in the quietest sections (background noise reduced, including hall ambience ie muted London noise).  Again purely by visual analysis, it is actually very similar to the original vinyl, apart from the ground noise level of course.

Olias

My go to Dvorak cycles are Suitner and Anguelov.  The Anguelov is hard to find but it's really good.  I also like some performances from the Valek cycle.  My favorite Dvorak recording that isn't a cycle is Mackerras doing #8 and #9 live with the Prague Symphony.  Wow, is it good.
"It is the artists of the world, the feelers, and the thinkers who will ultimately save us." - Leonard Bernstein

Mirror Image

Quote from: Olias on April 13, 2022, 06:28:31 PM
My go to Dvorak cycles are Suitner and Anguelov.  The Anguelov is hard to find but it's really good.  I also like some performances from the Valek cycle.  My favorite Dvorak recording that isn't a cycle is Mackerras doing #8 and #9 live with the Prague Symphony.  Wow, is it good.

A +1 for the Suitner cycle. What do you think about Kubelik, Neuman (both analog and digital cycles), Bělohlávek and Kertész?

Brian

Quote from: Olias on April 13, 2022, 06:28:31 PM
My go to Dvorak cycles are Suitner and Anguelov.  The Anguelov is hard to find but it's really good.  I also like some performances from the Valek cycle.  My favorite Dvorak recording that isn't a cycle is Mackerras doing #8 and #9 live with the Prague Symphony.  Wow, is it good.
We are going to get along great!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Brian on April 13, 2022, 06:58:10 PM
We are going to get along great!

:P

Indeed. Anyone who is a fan of Dvořák is a friend of mine.

DavidW

Quote from: Olias on April 13, 2022, 06:28:31 PM
My go to Dvorak cycles are Suitner and Anguelov.  The Anguelov is hard to find but it's really good.  I also like some performances from the Valek cycle.  My favorite Dvorak recording that isn't a cycle is Mackerras doing #8 and #9 live with the Prague Symphony.  Wow, is it good.

Some nice pics.  My favorite out of the box recording is the Ancerl 6th


André

Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2022, 05:42:47 AM
Some nice pics.  My favorite out of the box recording is the Ancerl 6th



Yes, that's one for the ages.


Olias

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 13, 2022, 06:46:30 PM
A +1 for the Suitner cycle. What do you think about Kubelik, Neuman (both analog and digital cycles), Bělohlávek and Kertész?

All of the above mentioned are great cycles, and I have indeed heard them all.  It's more a personal taste thing for me, but I never really got into the Kertesz cycle, which I know is borderline sacrilegious but it just doesn't grab me as much as Suitner or Anguelov.  Both of Neuman's cycles sound marvelous and are extremely well performed, but his tempi are just a little on the slow side for my taste (the exception is his 7th in the digital cycle, which in my opinion is one of the best 7ths out there, along with Levine/Chicago).  Bělohlávek's cycle is very good in terms of sound quality and his performances are musically beautiful although in some places there is a lack of energy.  Kubelik is the same in that (in my humble opinion) it's extremely well recorded but just a bit dull to my ears.  One thing Bělohlávek has going for him though are the three concerti included in the set...which...are...marvelous!

Having said that, we're talking varying degrees of excellence here.  You can't go wrong with any of these cycles.  It just depends on what you like.

If I were to assemble my own "perfect" cycle of symphonies, I'd do it this way:

Symphony 1 - Suitner
Symphony 2 - Suitner
Symphony 3 - Suitner
Symphony 4 - Valek for the 1st and 2nd mvt, Anguelov for the 3rd mvt and Suitner for the 4th mvt
Symphony 5 - Anguelov
Symphony 6 - Anguelov
Symphony 7 - Neuman (digital) or Levine
Symphony 8 - Mackerras (Prague Symphony)
Symphony 9 - Mackerras (Prague Symphony) or Bernstein (New York Phil)

Cello Concerto - Alisa Weilerstein/Bělohlávek
Violin Concerto - Akiko Suwanai/Fischer
Piano Concerto - Garrick Ohlsson/Bělohlávek

Yes I'm a Dvorak dork.  :)
"It is the artists of the world, the feelers, and the thinkers who will ultimately save us." - Leonard Bernstein

Olias

"It is the artists of the world, the feelers, and the thinkers who will ultimately save us." - Leonard Bernstein