Ten greatest (not 'favourite') 20th Century composers.

Started by vandermolen, October 03, 2013, 01:14:42 PM

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Karl Henning

#40
October 04, 2013, 08:10:08 AM
(* munches popcorn *)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

#41
October 04, 2013, 08:13:29 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on October 04, 2013, 08:10:13 AM
What I think is that a group of truly great composers can be identified (I think this kind of criteria can be found), but when it comes to saying which are greater than others then we have crossed over into personal preferences.

Well, to use an example wherewith I have already stuck my head on the chopping block in this very thread . . . you believe, then, that if I consider there to be arguments for Stravinsky being actually a greater composer than Ives, that either I am expressing a personal preference, or I am suggesting that Ives is in fact less than great?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

#42
October 04, 2013, 08:14:32 AM
(And BTW this is an example of how I find value in the thread/discussion . . . the elusiveness of the ideas makes for a readily rich conversation.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

#43
October 04, 2013, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on October 04, 2013, 08:16:23 AM
... But try making a case that Stravinsky is a greater composer than, say, Schoenberg.

Oh, you certainly preach to the choir with that example  0:)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sergeant Rock

#44
October 04, 2013, 08:29:25 AM
Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2013, 07:33:01 AM
So many members are listing Mahler, but isn't he late-romantic, not 20th century? :-\

I don't understand your question. Is "20th century" a style of music? I thought it was a time period  ;)  Saying Mahler is not a 20th century composer is like saying Beethoven isn't a 19th century composer. Besides, there were a great many Late Romantics (stylistically) working from the turn of the century until WWII. After the war they're known as Neo-Romantics  ;)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Brahmsian

#45
October 04, 2013, 08:30:54 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 04, 2013, 08:29:25 AM
I don't understand your question. Is "20th century" a style of music? I thought it was a time period  ;)  Saying Mahler is not a 20th century composer is like saying Beethoven isn't a 19th century composer. Besides, there were a great many Late Romantics (stylistically) working from the turn of the century until WWII. After the war they're known as Neo-Romantics  ;)

Sarge

I agree, if they composed a single note as of January 1, 1901, then they can be considered!  :)

kyjo

#46
October 04, 2013, 08:32:51 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 04, 2013, 08:29:25 AM
I don't understand your question. Is "20th century" a style of music? I thought it was a time period  ;)  Saying Mahler is not a 20th century composer is like saying Beethoven isn't a 19th century composer. Besides, there were a great many Late Romantics (stylistically) working from the turn of the century until WWII. After the war they're known as Neo-Romantics  ;)

Sarge

OK, you win, Sarge! ;) Mahler's a 20th century composer then. But that means I'll have to make an extra spot on my list for him......

vandermolen

#47
October 04, 2013, 08:34:15 AM
VMT (very many thanks) for all the replies. Probably I should have included Nielsen, Debussy and Stravinsky on my original list. I guess that I was still influenced by those composers whose music I play a lot (ie 'favourites' ::)) especially in relation to the last four on my list. I would stick with Honegger however. Surprised by lack of reference to Britten.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sergeant Rock

#48
October 04, 2013, 08:34:51 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on October 04, 2013, 08:25:01 AM
One suggestion for judging greatness: s/he has impacted his and successive generations such that other composers were obviously influenced by it.[/b]


Of course, which is why I based my list

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 03, 2013, 02:42:39 PM
on originality and influence

And that's fairly easy to ascertain. It's the reason all our lists are going to be more alike than not (as Karl noted).

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

#49
October 04, 2013, 08:35:44 AM
Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2013, 08:32:51 AM
OK, you win, Sarge! ;) Mahler's a 20th century composer then. But that means I'll have to make an extra spot on my list for him......

There's always room for Mahler  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

vandermolen

#50
October 04, 2013, 11:19:30 AM
Quote from: kyjo on October 03, 2013, 03:26:22 PM
You sure those aren't your favorites? ;)

Hehe  :)

Ok then here are favourites.

Miaskovsky
Vaughan Williams
Tubin
Rubbra
Bax
Bate
Glazunov
Copland
Bridge
Moeran
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

#51
October 04, 2013, 11:21:26 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 04, 2013, 11:19:30 AM
Hehe  :)

Ok then here are favourites.

Miaskovsky
Vaughan Williams
Tubin
Rubbra
Bax
Bate
Glazunov
Copland
Bridge
Moeran

No Braga Santos?! ??? ???

vandermolen

#52
October 04, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2013, 11:21:26 AM
No Braga Santos?! ??? ???

He's on my 'Great' list  8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

#53
October 04, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 04, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
He's on my 'Great' list  8)

Yeah, but still, he's not one of your favorites?! I would have thought he would be on your "favorites" list but not your "great" list. Also surprised to see no Shostakovich on your "favorites" list. :)

vandermolen

#54
October 04, 2013, 11:38:40 AM
Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
Yeah, but still, he's not one of your favorites?! I would have thought he would be on your "favorites" list but not your "great" list. Also surprised to see no Shostakovich on your "favorites" list. :)

I have too many favourites.  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).
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