Favorite Chamber Combination

[PaulR]

Please, don't laugh at this question:  Are there any 'string quartets' for violin, viola, cello and double bass?

Is there such a thing, would it work? 

There are the Hoffmeister Double Bass Quartets, 4 of them I think.

[mc ukrneal]

Please, don't laugh at this question:  Are there any 'string quartets' for violin, viola, cello and double bass?

Is there such a thing, would it work? 

From wikipedia:

Since there is no established instrumental ensemble that includes the double bass, its use in chamber music has not been as exhaustive as the literature for ensembles such as the string quartet or piano trio. Despite this, there is a substantial number of chamber works that incorporate the double bass in both small and large ensembles.

There is a small body of works written for piano quintet with the instrumentation of piano, violin, viola, cello, and double bass. The most famous is Franz Schubert's Piano Quintet in A major, known as "The Trout Quintet" for its set of variations in the fourth movement of Schubert's Die Forelle. Other works for this instrumentation written from roughly the same period include those by Johann Nepomuk Hummel, George Onslow, Jan Ladislav Dussek, Louise Farrenc, Ferdinand Ries, Franz Limmer, Johann Baptist Cramer, and Hermann Goetz. Later composers who wrote chamber works for this quintet include Ralph Vaughan Williams, Colin Matthews, Jon Deak, Frank Proto, and John Woolrich. Slightly larger sextets written for piano, string quartet, and double bass have been written by Felix Mendelssohn, Mikhail Glinka, Richard Wernick, and Charles Ives.

In the genre of string quintets, there are a few works for string quartet with double bass. Antonín Dvořák's String Quintet in G major, Op.77 and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's Serenade in G major, K.525 ("Eine kleine Nachtmusik") are the most popular pieces in this repertoire, along with works by Darius Milhaud, Luigi Boccherini (3 quintets), Harold Shapero, and Paul Hindemith.

Slightly smaller string works with the double bass include six string sonatas by Gioachino Rossini, for two violins, cello, and double bass written at the age of twelve over the course of three days in 1804. These remain his most famous instrumental works and have also been adapted for wind quartet. Franz Anton Hoffmeister wrote four String Quartets for Solo Double Bass, Violin, Viola, and Cello in D Major. Frank Proto has written a Trio for Violin, Viola and Double Bass (1974), 2 Duos for Violin and Double Bass (1967 and 2005), and The Games of October for Oboe/English Horn and Double Bass (1991).

Larger works that incorporate the double bass include Beethoven's Septet in E-flat major, Op.20, one of his most famous pieces during his lifetime, which consists of clarinet, horn, bassoon, violin, viola, cello, and bass. When the clarinetist Ferdinand Troyer commissioned a work from Franz Schubert for similar forces, he added one more violin for his Octet in F major, D.803. Paul Hindemith used the same instrumentation as Schubert for his own Octet. In the realm of even larger works, Mozart included the double bass in addition to 12 wind instruments for his "Gran Partita" Serenade, K.361 and Martinů used the double bass in his nonet for wind quintet, violin, viola, cello and double bass.

Other examples of chamber works that use the double bass in mixed ensembles include Serge Prokofiev's Quintet in G minor, Op.39 for oboe, clarinet, violin, viola, and double bass; Erwin Schulhoff's Concertino for flute/piccolo, viola, and double bass; Frank Proto's Afro-American Fragments for bass clarinet, cello, double bass and narrator and Sextet for clarinet and strings; Fred Lerdahl's Waltzes for violin, viola, cello, and double bass; Mohammed Fairouz's Litany for double bass and wind quartet; Mario Davidovsky's Festino for guitar, viola, cello, and double bass; and Iannis Xenakis's Morsima-Amorsima for piano, violin, cello, and double bass. There are also new music ensembles that utilize the double bass such as Time for Three and PROJECT Trio.

[kyjo]

I was split between string quartet and piano quintet.  I like the sound of the latter better, but the great artistic statement that the composer has to make is usually made in the string quartet, so that is where I cast my vote.

David, this isn't about which form is the "greatest", this is about which is your favorite. You should've voted for piano quintet, since you like the sound of it better!

[mahler10th]

Violin and Piano.  That old goat Brahms was good at that sort of thing.   

[Karl Henning]

Hey, maybe it just is flute and clarinet . . . .

[Karl Henning]

. . . You should've voted for piano quintet, since you like the sound of it better!

Maybe there are other things he likes better about the SQ 

[Florestan]

I went violin and piano.

+ 1.

Violin is heart-on-sleeve in a popular, democratic manner......

Piano is heart-on-sleeve in an aristocratic, elitist manner...

Put them together: dynamite!

[mc ukrneal]

+ 1.

Violin is heart-on-sleeve in a popular, democratic manner......

Piano is heart-on-sleeve in an aristocratic, elitist manner...

You've totally lost me with these comments...

[Florestan]

You've totally lost me with these comments...

Violin is sentimentally sentimental, piano is sentimentally cerebral: Paganini vs Beethoven; Tchaikovsky's VC  vs Schumann's PC  --- does it make more sense to you now? 

[Wanderer]

Violin and Piano.

That is also my first choice, although any chamber combination that includes piano is fine by me. Cello and piano would be my second choice.

Violin is heart-on-sleeve in a popular, democratic manner......

Piano is heart-on-sleeve in an aristocratic, elitist manner...

Put them together: dynamite!

Nicely put. 

[mc ukrneal]

Violin is sentimentally sentimental, piano is sentimentally cerebral: Paganini vs Beethoven; Tchaikovsky's VC  vs Schumann's PC  --- does it make more sense to you now? 

Not really, but I'll take your word on it!

[springrite]

The violin is the the tenor in an opera, usually have more passion and sentiment than sense. The cello is like the fatherly baritone.

Well, too much stereotyping, but this reminds me of Russell's sketch: Now comes the tenor and, because he is a tenor, you know he has an abundance of passion and hardly any sense and essentially brainless...

[DavidW]

David, this isn't about which form is the "greatest", this is about which is your favorite. You should've voted for piano quintet, since you like the sound of it better!

I stand by my vote.  Due to the greatness of the string quartets I've heard, I end up enjoying it more than the piano quintet despite liking the sound of the quintet better.

[DavidW]

Maybe there are other things he likes better about the SQ 

The harmony of the quartet, the role that each player has is as good as a rock band.  It's classic.   

[mahler10th]

The harmony of the quartet, the role that each player has is as good as a rock band.  It's classic.   

DavidW's features listening to Shostakovitch String Quartet no. 8 in C minor, opus 110

[DavidW]

Yes Shostakovich's 8th is so metal!!

[71 dB]

I like piano in chamber music. Piano quintet is my favorite formation. 

I was split between string quartet and piano quintet.

If we only had the option to vote for "banana" (banana split).

I like the sound of the latter better, but the great artistic statement that the composer has to make is usually made in the string quartet, so that is where I cast my vote.

For me this "greatest artistic statements for string quartet" -assertion is an urban myth. Much more music is composed for string quartet than piano quintet so of course there are more string quartet masterpieces. This is because string quartets are common music groups which means better changes to get your music played.

Fauré and Elgar are two examples of piano quintet(s) showing greater artistic statement than string quartet.

[Karl Henning]

For me this "greatest artistic statements for string quartet" -assertion is an urban myth. Much more music is composed for string quartet than piano quintet so of course there are more string quartet masterpieces. This is because string quartets are common music groups which means better changes to get your music played. quartet.

One of the reasons this is no "urban myth," is that many of the composers who have left a significant string quartet legacy (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Dvorák, Bartók, Schoenberg, Martinu, Shostakovich, Carter, Wuorinen--too long and too significant a list to shake off as a "myth") worked in the genre over the course of long, fruitful careers. The series of quartets serve as something of a musical diary, reflecting a rich and ongoing journey.

But even apart from that general argument for the significance of the medium for each composer... Haydn's Der Greis, Mozart's Haydn quartets, Beethoven's "muß es sein?," the soprano in the Schoenberg second quartet, the mesto framework of the Bartók sixth quartet, the elegiac adagios of the Shostakovich fifteenth: claiming that these are not intentional artistic statements is not an opinion: it's delusional.

[71 dB]

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. Of course string quartets are artistical statements, but so are piano quintets, piano trios (Haydn composed a lot of those too!) etc. I gave examples of two composer's whose piano quartets are better than string quartets.

[North Star]

One of the reasons this is no "urban myth," is that many of the composers who have left a significant string quartet legacy (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Dvorák, Bartók, Schoenberg, Martinu, Shostakovich, Carter, Wuorinen--too long and too significant a list to shake off as a "myth") worked in the genre over the course of long, fruitful careers. The series of quartets serve as something of a musical diary, reflecting a rich and ongoing journey.

But even apart from that general argument for the significance of the medium for each composer... Haydn's Der Greis, Mozart's Haydn quartets, Beethoven's "muß es sein?," the soprano in the Schoenberg second quartet, the mesto framework of the Bartók sixth quartet, the elegiac adagios of the Shostakovich fifteenth: claiming that these are not intentional artistic statements is not an opinion: it's delusional.

And then there are also Schubert's 14th & 15th, Brahms, Smetana, Sibelius, Debussy, Ravel, Janacek's two, Szymanowski's two, Berg, Dutilleux, for example. It's pretty obvious that no other chamber group has so much great music.