Favorite Beethoven Symphony

[Karl Henning]

You used the "u" word, so you're in Time Out for an hour 

[kyjo]

The 7th is so fantastic live.

I agree! Honeck and the PSO did a smashing job with it last season.

[kyjo]

You used the "u" word, so you're in Time Out for an hour 

You wanna know why I can use the "u" word? Because 'MURICA!

[kishnevi]

I could vote for any of the last six, really.

Agreed, with a change from six to seven.

[Karl Henning]

Agreed, with a change from six to seven.

+ 1

[DavidW]

LvB had many innovations in his symphonies 3 and beyond that you can describe many of the symphonies a "Game changer" and transforming the genre.

The third is a watershed moment in symphonic literature.  While each of his symphonies are innovative in their own way, the Eroica has a special place in history.  It is to the symphony as Haydn's Op 20 is to the string quartet.

[PaulR]

The third is a watershed moment in symphonic literature.  While each of his symphonies are innovative in their own way, the Eroica has a special place in history.  It is to the symphony as Haydn's Op 20 is to the string quartet.

My point was not that the 3rd didn't transform the genre, but most of the symphonies past and including #3 helped transform the genre.  The third wasn't the only thing that contributed to the growth of the genre, but rather, his entire catalog of symphonies changed the genre. 

[Karl Henning]

My point was not that the 3rd didn't transform the genre, but most of the symphonies past and including #3 helped transform the genre.  The third wasn't the only thing that contributed to the growth of the genre, but rather, his entire catalog of symphonies changed the genre. 

Hm, still you know . . .

The third is a watershed moment in symphonic literature.  While each of his symphonies are innovative in their own way, the Eroica has a special place in history.  It is to the symphony as Haydn's Op 20 is to the string quartet.

I think Davey's is a good point, which is underscored by the unprecedented scale of the Op.55 (whose first movement is generally longer in duration than that the second, third & fourth movements of the Op.21, combined).

[PaulR]

Hm, still you know . . .

I think Davey's is a good point, which is underscored by the unprecedented scale of the Op.55 (whose first movement is generally longer in duration than that the second, third & fourth movements of the Op.21, combined).

I didn't mean to imply that the third wasn't a game changer--Obviously, it was with the length and the introduction of the Scherzo that replaced the Minuet and Trio--I just meant to say that the importance of his symphonic works cannot be found in just the third.  The Fifth introduced new instruments to the genre and (more importantly) made the symphony one integrated piece instead of a work that combines 4 separate movements that aren't really related.  The Sixth introduced a fifth movement.  Most importantly, there is the 9th, which for some composers, ended the genre as they knew it and had to change how they proceeded in writing symphonies, i.e. adding a program to the symphony.

[Karl Henning]

I didn't mean to imply that the third wasn't a game changer--Obviously, it was with the length and the introduction of the Scherzo that replaced the Minuet and Trio--I just meant to say that the importance of his symphonic works cannot be found in just the third.

That is certainly fair, and more than fair.

[North Star]

Agreed, with a change from six to seven.

What was I thinking?! Of course I meant the last seven!

[mszczuj]

The formal tricks as introducing scherzo or vocal parts or new instruments or linking movements or length are not so important in these works. What is important in them is their intellectual quality, the way they mirror the universe of ideas. It is something which occur from one note to another - from each one note to another. The music of the Classical era is full of formal innovations which are completely forgotten now as the main model of symphony prevailed in our imagination. Not breaking this model but the quality of the ways it is done and importance of reasons to do so is here the value.

[aquablob]

The correct answer is #6, you silly people.

[not edward]

If I had to pick any, it'd probably be the 8th for its concision, genial wit and above all its sense of timing (I love how he's perpetually pulling the rug out from under the listener). But there's just so many extraordinary things in the symphonies that I could easily persuade to regard almost any of them as my favourite.

Maybe I should start a poll... "favourite passage in a Beethoven symphony."

[amw]

There are, actually, only a few things I dislike about the Beethoven symphonies:

- Some of the endings are pretty over the top. 5 and 8 especially. The coda to 3 also seems to go on for a little too long but I forgive it because the rest of the symphony is so brilliant.
- The slow movement of no. 1 is not for me up to par with the other eight. No. 6 to a lesser extent—beautiful, but it drags.
- I don't really get the whole Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo thing. Schumann's two-trios solution appeals to me significantly more.
- The "Ode to Joy". I generally agree with the points Brahms made in his non-verbal critique of it in his First.
- I've heard them way too many times (especially 5, 6 and 7) and familiarity takes off the edge

I could possibly pick some favourite movements (the first movement of 3, the last movements of 7 and 8, the scherzos of 5 and 9 etc) but not sure I could pick a symphony. I voted for 8 though, just to improve its standing in the poll. >.>

[vandermolen]

I'm not the greatest Beethoven fan in the world, but why not start this poll? Well, I voted for no. 7. Much as I love nos. 5 and 9, I suffer from over-familiarity with them and they are hackneyed to no end. No. 7, I feel, has a greater "freshness" to it. The joyous (and sometimes nervous) sweep of this work always puts a smile on my face (especially when those horns come in in the first movement)! The second movement is oddly moving in its solemn, melancholy feel. It's one of Beethoven's most unique creations.

I also voted for No 7. Is there anything we disagree on? 

[Karl Henning]

There are, actually, only a few things I dislike about the Beethoven symphonies:

- Some of the endings are pretty over the top. 5 and 8 especially.

Aye, and that's a bit of the point.  Did you see the Bernstein video which the Sarge provided?  Lenny is cool with the serial codas . . . so what is our problem? 

[kyjo]

I also voted for No 7. Is there anything we disagree on? 

Not much!

The only thing I remember us disagreeing on is Tavener's worth as a composer!

[vandermolen]

M

Not much!

The only thing I remember us disagreeing on is Tavener's worth as a composer!

Oh yes, and I have mixed views on Tavener too.

[Karl Henning]

Heck, I know a student of Tavener's, whose views are mixed.