Topic: Schoenberg's Sheen

[Haffner]

Agreed!  That one is a classic!  And the other works on the CD are must-haves as well, especially the Four Orchestral Songs.

This cd is now officially my next "to get"!

[greg]

just listened to: op.48 Three Songs for Low Voice
op.49 Three Folksongs for mixed chorus a cappella
(now that is definetely an example of Schoenberg using occasional returns to tonality!)

next: op.50 A, B, C
the only ones left that i can think of are the Cello Concerto, Moses und Aron, Gurrelieder, and Jacobsleiter and i've heard all of Schoenberg  (unless i find something later i've overlooked)

anyone else hear ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLl of Schoenberg yet? 

[Cato]

the only ones left that i can think of are the Cello Concerto, Moses und Aron, Gurrelieder, and Jacobsleiter and i've heard all of Schoenberg  (unless i find something later i've overlooked)

Dude!  The last 3 are absolutely crucial!!!  Listen to them chronologically and report back!

By the way, the score to Moses und Aron is being offered on Amazon for $66.

[karlhenning]

Full score?  (They wouldn't charge that for a vocal score? Naaaaaooooooooo . . . .)

[greg]

By the way, the score to Moses und Aron is being offered on Amazon for $66.

oh, that's it 
i say Dover should make miniature scores of every work in existence so people could actually afford them all 

[Guido]

I noticed you put the Cello Concerto in your list of favourite works. Its referred to in the Naxos booklet as 'a masterpiece' but I'm not so sure. I prefer the Ma rendition to the Sherry version, though I am usually very keen on Sherry.

It is one of the hardest Cello concertos ever written and its just too unreasonably hard to become standard rep (The Prokofiev is similarly difficult, but then one might say that it had more artisitic value).

I like it, for its humour and lightness, but I'm not convinced its a great work. Thoughts?

[greg]

I noticed you put the Cello Concerto in your list of favourite works. Its referred to in the Naxos booklet as 'a masterpiece' but I'm not so sure. I prefer the Ma rendition to the Sherry version, though I am usually very keen on Sherry.

It is one of the hardest Cello concertos ever written and its just too unreasonably hard to become standard rep (The Prokofiev is similarly difficult, but then one might say that it had more artisitic value).

I like it, for its humour and lightness, but I'm not convinced its a great work. Thoughts?

you're talking to Karl, right?
i haven't heard it yet....

[karlhenning]

you're talking to Karl, right?
i haven't heard it yet....

That's all right, Greg, I'm sending you thoughts . . . .

[karlhenning]

I noticed you put the Cello Concerto in your list of favourite works. Its referred to in the Naxos booklet as 'a masterpiece' but I'm not so sure. I prefer the Ma rendition to the Sherry version, though I am usually very keen on Sherry.

It is one of the hardest Cello concertos ever written and its just too unreasonably hard to become standard rep (The Prokofiev is similarly difficult, but then one might say that it had more artisitic value).

I like it, for its humour and lightness, but I'm not convinced its a great work. Thoughts?

I like it for its humor and lightness, too.  You're right, the Prokofiev is similarly a great challenge;  I probably agree that the Prokofiev is the greater work, but then, it's about twice the duration of the Schoenberg/Monn, too . . . which, at the least, makes the Prokofiev Opus 125 a more daunting investment for the orchestra.

I like the work too well to feel at all comfortable talking it down, Guido . . . but I agree that if the Naxos notes call it a 'masterpiece', they're overselling it a bit.

I haven't heard Ma in this;  is it on the Silk Road IV disc? 

[greg]

That's all right, Greg, I'm sending you thoughts . . . .

oh, thanks, Karl!
hm, this concerto ain't bad..... man, that cello playing is complex!
i love the tone row....

send me thoughts of Vaughan Williams symphonies (2-9 i don't have) next 

[Guido]

The thing about the cello part is that it sounds less difficult than it is. And it sounds bloody difficult, so you can imagine what an unrewarding prospect it is for the soloist. Don't get me wrong, I do like it quite a bit. Ma's recording which does away with the technical difficulties (Sherry sounds like hes straining a tad) is on Sony naturally coupled with his recording of Strauss' Don Quixote.


As a side note Karl do you ever feel that the Prokofiev's Symphony Concerto is too long? I find it difficult to sit through in one go.

[greg]

As a side note Karl do you ever feel that the Prokofiev's Symphony Concerto is too long? I find it difficult to sit through in one go.

....Karl is sending me thoughts...

he says, "no, yo"....

[Haffner]

....Karl is sending me thoughts...

he says, "no, yo"....

Aw, that's nowhere to go, yo!

[greg]

just finished Moses und Aron (well, technically, no one has ever "finished" that opera in any way, but...)

my thoughts: best opera I've heard yet, seriously!

I'm putting it over L'Amour de Loin, Wozzeck and Dialogues de los Carmelites (or however that title is written) as my favorite

next up: Jakobsleiter, Gurrelieder 

[Cato]

just finished Moses und Aron (well, technically, no one has ever "finished" that opera in any way, but...)

my thoughts: best opera I've heard yet, seriously!

I'm putting it over L'Amour de Loin, Wozzeck and Dialogues de los Carmelites (or however that title is written) as my favorite

next up: Jakobsleiter, Gurrelieder 

Going back into time!  That works!

Moses und Aron is in fact a finished work: Schoenberg's unconscious realized it, even if the frontal lobe did not!  You will discover the same is true for Jakobsleiter: it will sound blissfully complete!  In fact, I am willing to wager that unless one is told beforehand that the works are incomplete, one would never feel any sense of unfinished business.

[karlhenning]

Moses und Aron is in fact a finished work: Schoenberg's unconscious realized it, even if the frontal lobe did not!

Certainement!

[scottscheule]

oh, that's it 
i say Dover should make miniature scores of every work in existence so people could actually afford them all 

I'm not sure how many of you know about the IMSLP, but the site is getting us closer to that state of affairs.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page

[greg]

I'm not sure how many of you know about the IMSLP, but the site is getting us closer to that state of affairs.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page

i've downloaded all of Schoenberg's stuff on there already, excellent selection!
it'd be nice if they had the whole score to Moses Und Aron, though......

i also finished listening to Jakobsleiter and Gurrelieder awhile ago, good stuff though nothing compared to Moses Und Aron. It's seems that they don't have the Cello Concerto on Schoenberg's site, though.... 

[bwv 1080]

Posted this on the old forum,

You can listen to anything in Schoenberg's output at the Schoenberg Center's website (RealPlayer required):

http://www.schoenberg.at/6_archiv/music/works/op/compositions_op_e.htm

[scottscheule]

I've been listening to Boulez's Erwartung:

http://www.amazon.com/Schoenberg-Waldtaube-Erwartung-Zukerman-Barenboim/dp/B00000281B

Anyone know the disc, have an opinion?  Most reviews I find seem to be negative--I've never heard other recordings of the pieces, so I can't really say.