Schoenberg's Sheen

[karlhenning]

Huzzah!  Boulez Box 2 is en route!

[snyprrr]

I just the Schonberg Qrt. playing Op.7 on Koch ('88) to compare to the Leipzigers on MDG.

First off, I'll just give the recording to MDG, the Koch is characterful.

The performance, however, I'll give to the Schonberg group. They have the Romantic ardour, whereas the Leipzigers come off more like the ABQ. The SQ thrust forth from the first note with just more passion, playing the arching lines with just a bit more human drama to the LSQ's emotionally cleaner take. I'm not taking anything away from the LSQ, I just think that since the SQ only recorded this one quartet, they put that much more into it, perhaps.

Another feature of the Koch disc is the seperation of the single mvmt qrt into 20 tracks, as the quartet is written. The downside here is that there is no detailed tracklisting, with timings, just sub-listings, with timings for the four mvmts. Here, the MDG release, though keeping to four tracks for the quartet, has a detailed outline of the qrt's structure in the tracklisting section. After all, it is a quartet based on this complex structure. That is why Koch's oversight is so cruddy. Some of the tracks are very short, which makes for excellent study, so, it does behoove me to write my own listing.



As for the music in general, as if that's necessary, this particular release positively reminds me of Reger's d minor quartet (CPO/Bern SQ), which is also of monstrous proportions. In both, there is a surging fin de siecle malaise that I find appealing. Especially in Schoenberg, there is that hysterical overreaching, like a Hollywood Frankenstein movie, that so expresses the tearing at the limbs of tonality as it was at the turn of the century, just before it snapped. Both recordings highlight a pale, moonlight glow to the proceedings, which in each case brings out the macabre quality of these Ultra Late Romantic barnstormers. There's a bit of the Sherlock chasing the Ripper here, haha.

I don't know if you can call this music original, or if it's 'kitchen sink' music, using every device known to man at the time (the tumbleweed garden!), but, here Schoenberg keeps my attention for almost an hour. I do hear some indications of that insistant rhythm that seems to start off both SQs 3-4 (that actually permeates those pieces).

Anyhow, I can't imagine the Ardittis sounding all that much different from the LSQ (probably even less emotional?), and the New Vienna on Philips (and LaSalle) will have to be an also ran, which leaves the Kolisch, and,...isn't that the Schonberg Quartet again on Chandos??

[DavidW]

I don't think that you've characterized the Leipzig Q right at all.  Their style is very different from the more modernist approach of the Arditti Q.  They bring passion and warmth to Schoenberg without treating him like Brahms.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Now THIS looks like an enticing new disc - featuring the String Trio and a bunch of other pieces. Anyone heard it yet?:

[karlhenning]

I believe that's a reissue (and shuffle) of Koch releases . . . so of that lot, I have only heard Craft's recording of the Opus 34, which is not a large-scale work, but hot.

All the other pieces I have heard in other recordings . . . it's on Naxos: nab it!

[snyprrr]

I don't think that you've characterized the Leipzig Q right at all.  Their style is very different from the more modernist approach of the Arditti Q.  They bring passion and warmth to Schoenberg without treating him like Brahms.

But didn't I compare them with the ABQ, and not the Arditti? I'd love to just hear the Arditti, though, because I get the feeling they might be the only ones with the severity, and third person detachment, that I need for Nos.3-4. I dooo wonder, though, about their humanity in No.1/Op.7. If you like the Leipzigers, then, you'll love the Schonberg.

So,... who treats Op.7 like Brahms?

[DavidW]

But didn't I compare them with the ABQ, and not the Arditti? I'd love to just hear the Arditti, though, because I get the feeling they might be the only ones with the severity, and third person detachment, that I need for Nos.3-4. I dooo wonder, though, about their humanity in No.1/Op.7. If you like the Leipzigers, then, you'll love the Schonberg.

So,... who treats Op.7 like Brahms?

Oh sorry then.  The Brahms treatment comes from New Vienna.

[karlhenning]

Oh sorry then.  The Brahms treatment comes from New Vienna.

I think that's all right, though. Schoenberg revered Brahms the Progressive.

[karlhenning]

On revient toujours (1948)

I remember with great pleasure a ride in a Viennese fiacre through the renowned Höllenthal.  The fiacre went very slowly and we could discuss and admire all the beauty and, even more, the frightening aspects which gave the name to this Valley of the Hell.  I always regret that one might never possess nerves calm enough to endure such a slow ride.

At least, when only twenty years later I made a trip by auto through one of the most renowned valleys in Switzerland, I saw almost nothing and my companion on this occasion rather mentioned some of the commercial and industrial aspects this valley offered.  In twenty years people had lost the interest to take an eyeful of these beauties and enjoy them.

Of these two cases I had to think, when recently a German—a former pupil and assistant of mine!—asked me what he should answer when people demanded from him whether I had abandoned twelve-tone composing, as at present I so often compose tonal music: the Band Variations, Op. 42b, the Second Kammersymphonie, the Suite for String Orchestra and several others.

My answer was tuned to the pitch of the two true stories aforementioned, founded upon some historic facts.  I said: One should be surprised to find that the classic composers—Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms and even Wagner—after Bach's contrapuntal climax, in spite of their in essence homophonic style, so often interpolate strict counterpoint differing from Bach's counterpoint only by such features as the progress in music had brought about; that is, a more elaborate development through variations of the motive.

One cannot deny that the combination of these two structural methods is surprising, because they are contradictory.  In contrapuntal style the theme is practically unchangeable and all the necessary contrasts are produced by the addition of one or more voices.  Homophony produces all its contrasts by developing variation.  But these great masters possessed such an eminent sense of the ethical and aesthetical requirements of their art that the problem whether this is wrong can simply be disregarded.

I had not foreseen that my explanation of this stylistic deviation might also explain my own deviations.  I used to say: The classic masters, educated in admiration of the works of great masters of counterpoint, from Palestrina to Bach, must have been tempted to return often to the art of their predecessors, which they considered superior to their own.  Such is the modesty of people who could venture to act haughtily;  they appreciated achievements of others, though they themselves are not devoid of pride.  Only a man who himself deserves respect is capable of paying respect to another man.  Only one who knows merits can recognize the merits of other men.  Such feelings might have developed in a longing once again to try to achieve, in the older style, what they were sure they could achieve in their own more advanced style.

It is a feeling similar to that which would give  preference over the fast automobile, to the slow, leisurely fiacre;  which desires occasionally to dwell in the old, rather primitive living circumstances of our predecessors.  It is not that we wanted to nullify all progress, though machinery has eliminated so many crafts:  bookbinding, cabinet making, calligraphy, wood-carving and—almost—painting.

When I had finished my first Kammersymphonie, Opus 9, I told my friends: 'Now I have established my style.  I know now how I have to compose.'

But my next work showed a great deviation from this style;  it was a first step towards my present style.  My destiny had forced me in this direction—I was not destined to continue in the manner of Transfigured Night or Gurrelieder or even Pelleas and Melisande.  The Supreme Commander had ordered me on a harder road.

But a longing to return to the older style was always vigorous in me;  and from time to time I had to yield to that urge.

This is how and why I sometimes write tonal music.  To me stylistic differences of this nature are not of special importance.  I do not know which of my compositions are better;  I like them all, because I liked them when I wrote them.

[karlhenning]

The interesting serendipity here is that Watkins refers to this essay in The Gesualdo Hex . . . it wasn't clear to me in Watkins's book that "On revient toujours" was the title of an essay, though.  I took up Style and Idea today, and checked the index . . . wanted to see what (if anything) Schoenberg might have said about Mendelssohn, at least, what he might have said which is included in this anthology.  The name Mendelssohn appears only twice in the book . . . and once is in this essay, which I then realized was one of Watkins's sources in his book.

[Cato]

I believe that's a reissue (and shuffle) of Koch releases . . . so of that lot, I have only heard Craft's recording of the Opus 34, which is not a large-scale work, but hot.

Given Karl's comment and the discussion on the String Quartets made me remember a story from long ago (45 years or more).  I have probably told it before here, but if you missed it...

It was a very hot July afternoon, and I was playing an LP of the String Quartets III and IV.   It was filling most of the house, and at some point my mother came in and announced:

"Turn that stuff off!  It's hot enough as it is!!!"

(Except she didn't really say "stuff" unfortunately!   0:)   )

So, yes, Schoenberg can apparently cause actual physical heat!

[karlhenning]

Good morning, Cato! The perfect day for "An American Hero," BTW : )

[karlhenning]

And for those at home:

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZhNDsTGgQss

Begleitmusik zu einer Lichtspielszene [Accompanying music to a film scene], Op. 34 (1930)
RSO Berlin
Bertini

[Franco]

The except you quoted from Schoenberg is beautiful.  I am often struck by the animosity directed at this man by people who know very little about him other than he had the audacity to write music they are incapable of understanding or even tolerating.  It is sad, I think, that he has been turned into a sort of devil by some quarters of the classical music audience.

Speaking for myself, I consider his music some of the most beautiful I have heard.

[Cato]

Good morning, Cato! The perfect day for "An American Hero," BTW : )

Scrooge McDuck certainly is heroic!   

[karlhenning]

I can unqualified recommend The Gesualdo Hex to everyone here (at GMG -- the broader here);  in particular, though, any of us who take interest in Schoenberg should feel something close to an obligation to read chapter 5, "Conversations at the Brink: A Schoenberg-Leibowitz Correspondence, 1945-1950."

It's tempting to type in an excerpt, but the whole chapter is so apt and such a good read . . . just do it ; )

[not edward]

In the context of Schoenberg still liking to write tonal music, I sometimes play "guess the composer" with Weihnachtsmusik (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR94CiqtFLs). It might well be my favourite of Schoenberg's not-really-transcriptions.

[karlhenning]

Wow, how about that Fourth Quartet?  I go back to it only infrequently, but it knocks me out every time.

[kishnevi]

I can unqualified recommend The Gesualdo Hex to everyone here (at GMG -- the broader here);  in particular, though, any of us who take interest in Schoenberg should feel something close to an obligation to read chapter 5, "Conversations at the Brink: A Schoenberg-Leibowitz Correspondence, 1945-1950."

It's tempting to type in an excerpt, but the whole chapter is so apt and such a good read . . . just do it ; )

I've missed something here.  Gesualdo Hex is by someone named Watkins?  The name fails to ring a bell with me.  Can you give publication data?  Thx.

[Luke]

...any of us who take interest in Schoenberg should feel something close to an obligation to read chapter 5, "Conversations at the Brink: A Schoenberg-Leibowitz Correspondence, 1945-1950."[/font]

One of those silly little frissons here - I have a first edition of Leibowitz's Schoenberg et son ecole (1947) and also of his Introduction a la musique de douze sons, signed and dated January 1950. Right at the crux of things. It always gives me a shudder to hold that book in my hand.