Schoenberg's Sheen

[karlhenning]

I've missed something here.  Gesualdo Hex is by someone named Watkins?  The name fails to ring a bell with me.  Can you give publication data?  Thx.

The Gesualdo Hex, Glenn Watkins
W.W. Norton, 2010
ISBN 978-0-393-07102-3

[karlhenning]

One of those silly little frissons here - I have a first edition of Leibowitz's Schoenberg et son ecole (1947) and also of his Introduction a la musique de douze sons, signed and dated January 1950. Right at the crux of things. It always gives me a shudder to hold that book in my hand.

Silly is not at all the right adjective, Luke!  It's a like a time-warp (although I admit that my use of the phrase time-warp might be a bit silly . . . .)

[Cato]

I can unqualified recommend The Gesualdo Hex to everyone here (at GMG -- the broader here);  in particular, though, any of us who take interest in Schoenberg should feel something close to an obligation to read chapter 5, "Conversations at the Brink: A Schoenberg-Leibowitz Correspondence, 1945-1950."

It's tempting to type in an excerpt, but the whole chapter is so apt and such a good read . . . just do it ; )

Late in his life Stravinsky restudied Gesualdo and was inspired to orchestrate (basically, as I recall) 3 Gesualdo madrigals for the Monumentum pro Gesualdo.

The later letters of Schoenberg are melancholy: I believe there is one to Leibowitz which mentions the initial composition of a symphony! 

Another "might have been" moment in History!

[karlhenning]

Late in his life Stravinsky restudied Gesualdo and was inspired to orchestrate (basically, as I recall) 3 Gesualdo madrigals for the Monumentum pro Gesualdo.

Yes (and this book is in five Parts, one each of the five devoted to Schoenberg & Stravinsky). As recently as two-three years ago I was confused on the matter myself . . . but you are right that the Monumentum is a matter of arranging (minimal 'recomposition') three of the madrigals;  additionally . . . Gesualdo had published a set of six- and seven-voice motets.  These had been published as part-books (the contemporary norm), but by our day the part-books of the Sextus and Tenor are missing.  Stravinsky selected three of the motets to (creatively) 'complete': "Illumina nos," Gesualdo's only work for seven voices;  and "Assumpta est Maria" and "Da pacem Domine," "the sole examples of strict canon in Gesualdo's entire ouevre" (Watkins).

[Scarpia]

Seems like a big day for Schoenberg listening, presumably because Arnie's adoption of his new native country fits well with 4th of July patriotism.   

Listened to the Suite Op. 29 today (for 3 clarinets, string trio and piano), performance by Boulez and his Ensemble Intercontemporain.  Now it's available on Sony, I have the original disc issued by CBS Masterworks. 

This is a delightful piece, from early in Schoenberg's pan-tonal period.  It starts with a prelude in some semblance of sonata form, followed by Arnie's version of a waltz, a theme and variations, and a gigue.  Wonderful instrumental textures and quirky rhythms. 

I remember listening to this piece long, long ago and thinking it sounded like something of a joke.   Now, I've had the following thought.  When listening to Mozart, we can follow the standard harmonies unfolding and develop an expectation of what is coming next, the next note, the next phrase, the next harmonic progression.  This allows Mozart to decide, at each juncture, whether to give us what we are expecting, or to give us something different, to surprise us.  So I decided to listen to this piece with that in mind.  I constantly ask myself as I listen to this piece by Schoenberg, "what will happen next?"  "How will this phrase end, what will come next?"  And to a surprising extent, I feel like my expectations are met, perhaps not all the time but more often than random.  So Schoenberg can play the expectation game, although it takes more effort to follow, and the results are not as clear cut.

The other thing that strikes me about this music is that since it is organized in terms of sequences of tones, the emphasis shifts strongly to melody and counterpoint rather than harmony.  Maybe that means that a major aspect of music has been depreciated, but it opens up new possibilities. 

In any case, I want to listen to more Schoenberg!

[Cato]

Seems like a big day for Schoenberg listening, presumably because Arnie's adoption of his new native country fits well with 4th of July patriotism.   

Listened to the Suite Op. 29 today (for 3 clarinets, string trio and piano), performance by Boulez and his Ensemble Intercontemporain.  Now it's available on Sony, I have the original disc issued by CBS Masterworks. 

This is a delightful piece, from early in Schoenberg's pan-tonal period.  It starts with a prelude in some semblance of sonata form, followed by Arnie's version of a waltz, a theme and variations, and a gigue.  Wonderful instrumental textures and quirky rhythms. 

I remember listening to this piece long, long ago and thinking it sounded like something of a joke.   Now, I've had the following thought.  When listening to Mozart, we can follow the standard harmonies unfolding and develop an expectation of what is coming next, the next note, the next phrase, the next harmonic progression.  This allows Mozart to decide, at each juncture, whether to give us what we are expecting, or to give us something different, to surprise us.  So I decided to listen to this piece with that in mind.  I constantly ask myself as I listen to this piece by Schoenberg, "what will happen next?"  "How will this phrase end, what will come next?"  And to a surprising extent, I feel like my expectations are met, perhaps not all the time but more often than random.  So Schoenberg can play the expectation game, although it takes more effort to follow, and the results are not as clear cut.

The other thing that strikes me about this music is that since it is organized in terms of sequences of tones, the emphasis shifts strongly to melody and counterpoint rather than harmony.  Maybe that means that a major aspect of music has been depreciated, but it opens up new possibilities.

In any case, I want to listen to more Schoenberg!

(My emphasis above)

Another way to understand Schoenberg's musical style, and Erwartung is an excellent example of this, is through his use of "musical space."  Similar to Bruckner and his pauses, Schoenberg tends to organize things so that eventually there is a filling of the "space" after which there is silence or simplification.  In the absence of tonal cadences, this is how Schoenberg (perhaps intuitively) solved the problem of resolution in a system where a normal harmonic resolution was not possible.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I too have been on a Schoenberg binge recently, focusing on the String Trio (a recent acquisition), the Op. 31 Variations for Orchestra (an old friend), Pierrot Lunaire (ditto), and some of the piano music.

What comes through is how much of the breakthrough to atonality and later serialism was driven by Schoenberg's personality and expressive need. If he'd been an easygoing guy who liked to write songs about puppydogs, bubbles and champagne, he would never have gone the atonal route. On the now locked Schoenberg v. Mendelssohn thread, somebody ("Josquin" I think) pointed out that Arnie's style was the natural expression of his nightmarish thoughts. This was intended as a criticism, but I thought it was essentially correct.

Try listening to Pierrot Lunaire while following the texts closely. It's a house of horrors. Check out the song about how Pierrot drills a hole into some poor guy's head, stuffs it with tobacco, and then smokes the tobacco out of his victim's skull. It's hard to imagine Schubert or Brahms writing a song about such an event.

The harsh side of reality brought out the best in Arnie. The String Trio was written in response to a heart attack he'd just suffered. It may or may not be a good idea to listen to the Trio as a record of this experience. But surely there are few pieces which pack this much intensity into such a small space.

I have the Scarpia-mentioned Op. 29 on the same disc as the Trio, so I'll mark it down for near-future listening.

[karlhenning]

The Los Angeles String Trio:

http://www.youtube.com/v/yDN93Ijomm4

String Trio, Op. 45 (1946) [video 1 of 2]

(Mis-labeled on youtube, of course. Opus 41 is the Ode to Napoleon Buonaparte.)

[karlhenning]

http://www.youtube.com/v/20vtpZLpZEE

String Trio, Op. 45 (1946) [video 2 of 2]
The Los Angeles String Trio

[karlhenning]

Some years ago, I totally chanced upon the Craft/Schoenberg series on Koch, remaindered at BRO.  (Chanced, because I actually only surf their site irregularly.)  I fetched them in greedily . . . not that I was such an enthusiast for Schoenberg at the time.  In fact, at that point I had been rather cool to Schoenberg for some years.  But I had reached a point where I was curious at least to hear many of the pieces which I still knew only by name;  and the fact remains that I was besotted with (to name but two examples) Pierrot Lunaire when I was first exposed to it as an undergraduate, and with the Serenade Opus 24 when I chanced on a CD with it, while I was in Buffalo.  Mentally, I knew that my then-coolness might well be a whimsical phase (no matter how long a period it had chilled), and I allowed myself to recall viscerally that there was a time when I was unqualifiedly enthusiastic about the music.

Now, if I had waited a short-ish time, I probably could have fetched all (or, most of) these recordings as Naxos re-issues.  I haven't done the math — I might or might not have saved a smallish bit of money by waiting.  But (what I could not necessarily have foreseen) I benefited from the Koch reel-in, because (and the same fact applies to the Craft/Stravinsky Koch remainders which similarly I fetched from BRO) Craft's liner notes are extensive, to a degree which tests the physical capacity of the jewel-cases: Vol III of The Music of Arnold Schoenberg (released in 1999)has a booklet which is 36 pages, not including cover.

Before discussion of the pieces on Vol III themselves, Craft writes a preface, Remembering Schoenberg.  I reproduce just two paragraphs from this:

To this day I wonder why I did not attempt to arrange a meeting between the two titans of modern music, but it can only be that I realized that Stravinsky was not ready for it.  With the exception of Verklärte Nacht, in its ballet form as Pillar of Fire [! ~kh], he began to learn Schoenberg's music only after the older man's death.  How different the situation would have been a year and a half later, when Stravinsky would have gone to him, addressed him as "Meister," reminisced with him about Berlin in 1912, and thanked him for presenting the original instrumental versions of Pribaoutki and Berceuses du Chat, and the 4-hand and string quartet pieces, in his Vienna Society For Private Performances in 1919.

In truth, the thought that a meeting could have been effected between the two men, who had lived only a few miles for eleven years but never communicated, still disturbs me.  Schoenberg's biographer, H. H. Stuckenschmidt, describes Stravinsky during a visit to him in April 1949 "warmly" asking about "the great old man," and it was known then that Schoenberg had protested against the abuse of Stravinsky by René Leibowitz and Theodor Adorno.  In the autumn of 1949 Stravinsky was in the Los Angeles audience that heard Schoenberg deliver an ironic acceptance speech to the Austrian Consul-General for bestowing the "Freedom of the City of Vienna" on him.  I was in New York at the time, and when I returned Stravinsky sympathetically described the occasion to me, of Schoenberg, whose eyesight had begun to fail, reading from a clutch of papers, each containing only a few words written in large letters.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Supposedly there exists a recording of Arnie himself leading a performance of Pierrot Lunaire. Has anyone heard it and can give an opinion on it?

[karlhenning]

Supposedly there exists a recording of Arnie himself leading a performance of Pierrot Lunaire. Has anyone heard it and can give an opinion on it?

At least part of that seems to be on youtube (which cannot be sonically ideal, of course).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Thanks for the tip. I found it - fascinating stuff.

[Drasko]

Supposedly there exists a recording of Arnie himself leading a performance of Pierrot Lunaire. Has anyone heard it and can give an opinion on it?

It does exist, though I haven't heard it. I was outbid on e-bay for the CD few years ago, can't recall the exact price it went for but it was way over my head.

[karlhenning]

The Master himself:

http://www.youtube.com/v/utm1HH16uwM

http://www.youtube.com/v/eZ-8zFtWK8k

http://www.youtube.com/v/dQ0i5SQIEcg

http://www.youtube.com/v/SD-LekekKOM

[karlhenning]

So in the beginning of the third movement (Tema mit Variationen) of the Suite Opus 29 . . . the bass clarinet (up in the ghostly high-ish register) plays what sounds like a chorale-tune.  Anyone have more granularity here?

[Scarpia]

So in the beginning of the third movement (Tema mit Variationen) of the Suite Opus 29 . . . the bass clarinet (up in the ghostly high-ish register) plays what sounds like a chorale-tune.  Anyone have more granularity here?

What does "granularity" mean in this context?

[karlhenning]

More information, thanks.  Whether about the tune (does it have a historic source?) or the scheme of the variations.  Or about the whole work.  I'm wide open here.

[Luke]

Malcolm Macdonald says something about it in his Schoenberg book, can't quite recall what!

[karlhenning]

I mean, I'm just digging the Suite overall, and I can take or leave harder info about it.  I do tend to be a little intellectually curious, though.